Installing ham radio-which side of car to run wiring?

Well I don't have my Prius yet, but I plan to put the radio in the area of the battery, run the antenna (through glass Larson dual band) at the top centre of the rear hatch glass, and run the control cable up the pass. side. I will also have to put a relay back there with the relay control wire running up to an aux. power outlet in the console (so it switches with accy). I have an ICOM IC2710 for the Prius, and I have an ICOM IC2720 in the anti-Prius (see below). It uses a Larson dual band NMO antenna mounted in the centre of the roof. Both radios use the control head detach accy. This makes it much easier to avoid interference re car computer.

VA6DAB

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(8thyota @ Mar 20 2007, 05:09 PM) [snapback]409163[/snapback]</div>

Just finally got around the other day to do my VHF/UHF (144/440) install. The radio has a detachable face with the face mounted below AM/FM radio and the radio itself below the passenger seat. The power is directly from the 12 volt battery, fused on both terminals at the battery for redundancy. The antenna now is a 62" dual bander (but is just too big for the car; the geek meter gets too high with this antenna!, so I am purchasing a 29" Maldol dual bander) lip mounted on the right front portion of the hatchback. Antenna gain figures, from many subjective opinions, are not that critical with regards to VHF and UHF as opposed to HF. Your performance of any VHF or UHF installation depends much more on the antenna cabling (which is of minimal loss in vehicle installs because of the short runs) and receiver performance.

Antenna lead is 18" of RG-174 for minimal weather seal deformation and then to 10' of RG-58 (which BTW is just the right length!). Advertised loss of the cable assembly is a mere .40 dB.

You will have to do some creative fishing and pulling of the power and antenna wires through the kick boards (you will have to pull some these panels) and carpet but it is not too difficult. Just to be clear, I ran all the wiring on the passenger side of the vehicle.

No interference issues I have noted since with VHF and UHF. I understand HF is very difficult to work from the Prius because of the noise from the various hybrid components. I have yet to read the Prius itself is affected by any form of amateur RF (but I don't know if anyone has successfully mounted an Alpha 9500 in a Prius yet!).

With regards to the glass mount antennas, I have heard nothing but bad reviews. Never seen an actual objective test of glass mounts vs. NMO or PL-259 terminations, but the hams I have spoken to who have used the glass mounts feel they attenuate way too much RF to be very useful.

Rick
#4 2006

 

It's true a glass mount doesn't work as well as a proper connection, but my through glass worked fine on the RX-7 for years. Some cars you just don't want a lip mount and definately don't want to put a hole in. Because you are almost always using a repeater with VHF or UHF, a through glass works just fine. Even on simplex it worked fine in the RX-7.[attachmentid=7068]

 

Going to be installing a Diamond NR770HB on my 10-day old Prius as soon as UPS delivers my missorted mount, taking 10 days to get to Abq from HRO San Diego! Initially I'll use my IC-2100 sitting on the hump in front of center console, will get a IC-208 when I save the money, should be able to find a place for a small remote head like that radio has. Recently bought a Yaesu FT-857D and ATAS-120, but after reading about Prius QRM, forget even thinking about that. Would be a waste of time. I think we need a dedicated area on this site for ham radio related postings! '73, KD5RHR

 

Isn't the Prius a 'Geek-mobile' enough already? ... that you need to turn it into an 'Antenna farm'
I've decided to hold off with a transciever install, because I'm leary what 50 watts will do to the electronics / ECU's etc. If one were to only run 5 watts though, I'd use the existing FM antenna ... not perfectly matched, but it'll certainly avoid the butt-ugly factor of multiple antennas.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hill @ Apr 4 2007, 10:31 AM) [snapback]417592[/snapback]</div>

Well, I just added a CAN View V3 and upgraded to a Valentine-1 detector -- but I see I still have work to do if I don't want to be out-geeked!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hill @ Apr 4 2007, 11:31 AM) [snapback]417592[/snapback]</div>

Yes, I admit, the geek factor gets fairly high with the addition of more antennas. But I still get invited to the neighborhood poker game every weekend ;-). I use a 29" dual bander (black color, cell phone style mid location coil) mounted on the right front corner of the hatchback so it's not too obvious.

With regards to the wattage, I run full power nearly all the time. My Kenwood TMV-7A puts out about 40 watts on 2M and 30 or so on 70cm. Absolutely no issues with the Prius.

When automobiles are designed they obviously go through thousands of tests for most everything a consumer would "throw" at the vehicle. It would be my guess the car would at least be designed to handle 100 watts or so of radiated RF in the VHF and upper bands. I have yet to read someone having an issue with RF problems with the Prius in the VHF and higher spectrum.

Rick
#4 2006

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hill @ Apr 4 2007, 09:31 AM) [snapback]417592[/snapback]</div>

I'm proud to be a geek! I think you are in denial. There any shrinks in Kalispell?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(abq sfr @ Apr 4 2007, 05:56 PM) [snapback]417830[/snapback]</div>

Yep! . . . And She who must be obeyed, would send me there PRONTO, if she came out and saw the Kenwood 2000 mounted in the trunk ... the Remote head mounted up on the overhead compartment . . . the the Hi-Q Screwdriver Antenna (with cap-hat) on the rear bumper . . . auto tuner ... 500 watt amp ... oh yea, Dr. Sigmund ... here I come!

Yes, the 35 watt radios might not kill the electronics, but the 2000 even does 100 watts 'barefoot' on 2 meter ... so that's why I'm still a little leary.

 

CQ CQ prius chat. A friend of mine, W8LMF wrote a huge amount of wiring and RFI issues articles on his home page. callsign dot com yada yada, don't know if they're still posted. He sold his Prius because of many reasons, and switched back to a VW Jetta TDI. Maybe there are some goood articles on his home page about opto-isolators on the 12V battery and how he mounted them there.

As for the geek factor: no doubt that goofy antennas look goofy on the prius. I briefly ran a Diamond tri band 2/220/440 antenna on a lip mount. I used an HT and finally decided not to pursue a final install of a mobile radio. The most geek antenna would be a squa-lo or a horizontal loop antenna for single sideband which is way cool at home, but not on a Prius.

The coolest geek thing about being a ham is being able to run VHF/UHF and link to echolink or IRLP radios and talk around the world from your Prius. Of course a cell phone would do the same thing. Ham radios are now connected to the internet and hams from around the world use them everyday.

You should be fine running a dual bander, but look for some ways to not leave the radio on accidentally, especially if it is connected to the 12V battery. Most radios have an auto power off function. Might be a good idea to activate that feature and prevent a dead 12V battery?

I always carry 2 HT's while I commute and I live near a huge set of mountains chock full of repeaters, so HT access is OK. I keep the antenna and trunk mount stowed in the back compartments. I also have several 12V lighter plug adapters for HT power if needed.

I am a geek and my neighbors views include too many antennas to list. When they ask what I do I say I can talk to the International Space Station, Satellites, Internet and moonbounce when I get really crazy. When I tell them that I only need notify the FAA if my tower would ever exceed 200 feet, they get this look on their face that is priceless. HF from the Prius is noisy at best, there are some diehard geek hi hi's that do run HF from the Prius, but I will never do it. I understand there is a lot do for little return in filtering out all of the pops squeels and chatter that come from square waves produced by the voltage inverters. VHF AND UHF FM OPERATIONS ARE FINE from the prius.

73 to all you Hi Hi's and OM's out there...
KD6HDX

 

I am back. 8thyota here. I had to re-register, 8thyota would not work in any
browser and I write down all my passwords, etc.
I will have a display name of "Hope it works" just because I hope I can post again.

Thanks for all your good inputs, I will take a hard look at which way to go.
I have been in bed, on oxygen most of the time the last couple of weeks &
will have to go to Denver, the Respiratory Hospital. Wish I could have got in earlier.

I also tried emailing our host, telling him I had re-registered, trying HARD not to break any rules, but that email couldn't get thru, so if any of you know our moderator and can please contact him (them?)...I would appreciate it if you would do so. Double registrations are usually a "no no"
but after..uh...6 emails to the moderator about not getting in, he is ready to shoot me I bet.

Back to HF, have you tried some good filters? I had an old Ford Bronco II
that drove me nuts until I put a 6 meter filter on that antenna.

I did not plan on using HF, it is technically my wife's car, N6TTH, but she
wants no part of HF in it. Dual band 2 meter-440 is ok.

Antennas? I have also heard "thru the glass" has problems, but I have a couple of the Diamond lip mounts I am looking at.

With IRLP, HF is fun, but not as critical, plus cell phone coverage is getting much better.

Again, sorry it took so long to get back in, but I am 8thyota, or was...and
I have really enjoyed reading your responses, thanks a lot. It made the days go by better....

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(viking31 @ Apr 4 2007, 04:30 PM) [snapback]417792[/snapback]</div>

A quick FYI, Rick ~ if you choose to crush the diode to mod for out-of-band transmitting, your 440 will only transmit out appx 15 watts ... (speaking from experience but it will still tell you you're running high power (sorry if i'm hijacking the thread).

 

My Diamond K412C mount finally came last night. I put it on the left trunk lip just below the bottom glass, and used the Diamond NR-770HB dualband antenna I also just purchased, ran some thin coax up to the front (under the back floor mat) and used one of those thin-wired PL-259 to sma adapters on my FT-60 handheld. I checked into the net this morning and got a fantastic signal report with no white noise... running the FT-60 on med power (probably blasting them with 2 watts) on 70cm. So, I might just keep it this way! BTW, when I left the Prius in the parking lot this morning, I looked back at it to see how geeky it looked... almost couldn't see the antenna. Its black, and mounted where it is, it also does not touch the garage door when I pull it in. So, I'm

 

abq sfr,
I have the Kenwood dual band G 707A. The Prius is my wife's car. Pause for all the guys to roll their eyes and grunt "OH YEAH". No holes in it. So the mount you mentioned will get another look. I have accumulated several types of mounts over the years.
Since I pretty new, I wasn't sure we were supposed to list our call signs, but
I see some have. I am N6TTG, or what is left of him. Darned pain meds are hard to fight thru. QRM of the first magnitude. They make a coax, uh...LMR 400 as I vaguely recall, I think I still have some, thought about it for running up front.
My Avalon has a Kenwood 742 in it, where the ash tray is hidden. A friend of mine spent a lot of time until you cannot tell I have a radio in the dash.
The cover for it moves up and down like a stock car would.
Thanks again, I am taking notes from all. As I said, 8thyota simply quit being able to log on, so I switched to "Hope it works".
It is my fault I am sure, morphine does that to ya. Thanks..73ss

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Hope it works @ Apr 6 2007, 06:32 PM) [snapback]419072[/snapback]</div>

Hi agian, 'Hopeitworks'. The 707 has the same remote face as my 2000 (except for the HF features). LMR (good shielding) 400 is great ... but only for long runs prior to reaching your antenna ... when transmitting on 440mhz and above. In a car, your loss on a run of 8' of RG8 (for example) will be less than a half DB on 440mhz and below . . . so buying LMR 400 is "price" over kill for 220, 2M, 6M, HF, aa well as short coax runs for 440mhz. It's a waste to spend the extra $$$, as well as spending it on silver N connectors, etc for mobile applications. GO CHEEP! ... because your loss is minimal on an auto. Simply get a nice alternater type filter onto the incoming power lead, to stop noise.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(abq sfr @ Apr 5 2007, 02:41 PM) [snapback]418367[/snapback]</div>

I just bought an '07 Prius (my '01 has a slightly shorter front end than it did a few days ago... ) and I'm trying to figure out how to mount my antennas on the new car. I want to mount on the lip below the glass, as well...but where did you run the coax from there? I was contemplating trying to pop the plastic molding off and run it under that, but I'm scared of breaking something!

I'd love to know what others have done!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(adavenpo @ Apr 10 2007, 07:37 AM) [snapback]420766[/snapback]</div>

The Diamond K412C mount has that really thin coax for around 4-5 feet. I just ran it inside the trunk, on top of the weatherstripping, so when the trunk lid is closed its just pinched between weatherstripping and trunk lid. It rained a lot last couple days and no wet inside trunk, so it's still weathertight. I had some other premade coax I use for qrp operation, ran that up to the center console. The Diamond NR-770HB dualband antenna matches the mount and both are black so are fairly stealthy. The YL has not even complained, so I guess she's ok with it. Here are a few pics, first time I've done this so hope it works...
[attachmentid=7476][attachmentid=7477][attachmentid=7478][attachmentid=7479]

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(abq sfr @ Apr 14 2007, 09:54 PM) [snapback]423451[/snapback]</div>

Wow, those are massive pics!
I'd recognize that skinny coax anywhere RG-58 ... Don't even THINK about using it on a tower, or for that matter even to the top of a 2 story home. Even on 2 meter, you'll have 5dB of loss for every 25m of coax. On 440? You can basically double the loss. But the short runs for a car though? It'll do ok.

Back to the OP . . . who's thinking of drawing power from the Prius 12v Battery? I'd take a long hard look at that battery. The word, "Skimpy" ought to come to mind. Remember, the Prius just needs enough 12v juice to boot up the on board ECU's ... heck, you can do that with 8 flashlight batteries. I'd suggest adding a bigger battery.

Now, a really SWEET antenna? I'd go for ultra low profile. How 'bout a whipless 5" stubby Antenex by Phantom ... if you don't mind drilling an NMO mounting hole.
http://www.antenex.com/c_search.asp?txtFun...Application=MBL

 

Here's what I did. First, I'm using an ICOM ICH2720 which has a separate control head. You can see it mounted with Velcro tape below the dash on the console. Microphone is also mounted with velcro. The tape comes off completely. I know because I removed it all from the anti-Prius (2001 Pathfinder).

The radio unit is installed behind the left side storage tray in the hatch. You can see it in the photo.

The cable to the control head is run up the transmission hump under the carpet into the console. The wire isn't shown on the control head shot as it wasn't run yet. I got lazy and just ran it over the carpet from the console to the control head.

I coated the back of the speaker with hook velcro tape. It sticks very well to the carpet under the drivers seat (no nav. unit in my car). You can see it in the second photo. I ran the speaker cable under the carpet along the transmission hump as well. Access to the hatch area is not too difficult on the left side of the car.

The antenna is a Larson dual band NMO unit, mounted on a stainless bracket on the side of the car hatch opening (left side). I drilled a 5/16" hole, installed a grommet, and fed the RG-58 through that down to the radio. Sealed it all with black silicone rubber. It's fairly clean, though I really wanted to use my Larson dual band through glass antenna. Rear washer/wiper were in the way.

Because the radio is in the left rear corner of the hatch area, the antenna cable is nice and short. So is the power cable. It just runs across the back of the car. All very easy to get at if you lift out the storage bin.

To run the cable under the carpet you have to remove the rear seat (just pull up on each side at the front of the seat bottom and it comes right out). Then remove the three carpet "buttons" - they just popped out using a "slot tool" - a flat blade with a slot cut into it. Standard interior tool. Then release the carpet along the bottom of the left rear door - pop the threshold plastic up. This will give you -just- enough room to fit your arm under the carpet to feed it to the console. The console removes with two bolts in the rear of the storage bin and two screws at the front (sides) accessable if you pull off the cupholder assy.

All in all, very easy.


I got lazy, and didn't run a wire to the accy. power outlet yet. I will have to do this (running it under the carpet as the other two cables). This wire will be for a relay to shut off the radio power when the car isn't on. Right now I have to remember to shut it off.

BTW, the Prius auxilliary battery is not really that small. It's the same size as a Civic battery. About 38 A-Hr. In fact, I used the same battery in my RX-7 and used an ICOM ICH 2710 in it with no problems.

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