INTAKE MANIFOLD: TAKE 5! (17120-37054 17120-37053 17120-37052 17120-37051 17120-37050)...and so on.

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Care, Maintenance & Troubleshooting' started by Atari, Jan 26, 2019.

  1. Atari

    Atari Member

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    So here's a question for those that know....

    Does the latest version (17120-37054?) of the intake manifold from TOYOTA fix the (knocking, shaking, misfire, sputtering, stalling, etc.) problem?

    We can see on Camelback Toyota Parts, the current IM part number is now up to 17120-37054.

    2010 Toyota Prius Parts - Camelback Toyota Parts - Genuine OEM Parts - Free Shipping

    The TSB that is stickied here:
    NEW!!! Service Bulletin for Engine Knocking at Startup T-SB 0012-10 | PriusChat

    ...is only up to version 17120-37052

    So many revisions to the same part.

    What the heck is going on with TOYOTA and this issue??

    If the IM design update(s) aren't fixing the problem, then what is the actual root cause of the problem?

    Are we really to believe that TOYOTA hasn't figured it out?

    Are they possibly trying to prevent admitting that it is a defect or significant design flaw in the engine/block itself?
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    no

    what are you driving?

    if you mean gen 3, you need to clean the egr circuit, and not shut the car down in the warm up cycle
     
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  3. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    Install an oil catch can too(y).
     
  4. Atari

    Atari Member

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    I've done it all. Cleaned IM, EGR cooler, EGR, EGR pipe, new plugs and installed an OCC.

    Might thought (hope) is possibly bad or intermittently bad ignition coil, or a clogged injector.

    However this hope is probably in vain since Toyota has created multiple IM versions to address (or deflect from) the root of this problem.

    If it were a coil or injector I think they would be all over that before reimbursing local Toyota service guys for IM and EGR teardown/replacements.
     
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  5. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Titanic Social Director

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    I'd think periodic cleaning of the intake manifold is at least, if not more effective than replacement. Just from a few fuzzy pictures I recall, I think the revised IM goes from a one-into-four EGR passageway, to one-into-two-into-four. Which is maybe slightly less clog prone, but clogs never the less?

    What's the problem you're seeing btw, say shaking at start-up? Or?
     
    #5 Mendel Leisk, Jan 26, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2019
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  6. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    how many miles on her?
     
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  7. mjoo

    mjoo Senior Member

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    From your other thread you mentioned engine coolant loss? That can be a sign of a bad head gasket.

    Pixel XL ?
     
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  8. rjp123

    rjp123 Member

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    Was there any resolution on this? I have the same issue. When my Gen III starts it occasionally shakes like the engine is going to jump out of the hood! After about 15 seconds it settles down and drives normally. It have been this way since about 100K miles. I have 206K now. I had the EGR replaced a while back when there was a TSB on it but that made no difference. Since it only happened rarely (once a month or so) I never cared much about it, but a few days ago it started doing this every time the engine starts after being off for more than about 10 minutes. Even if it is warmed up. Now it has really got my attention. I see the MIL is lit as of today. Haven't pulled code yet. I will definitely replace the intake manifold if it fixes this problem.

    Thanks for any help.
     
  9. Montgomery

    Montgomery Senior Member

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    Your avatar..................?
     
  10. cmderks93

    cmderks93 New Member

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    Did you already change the manifold?
     
  11. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Titanic Social Director

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    @rjp123 hasn't posted in a few months.

    How many kilometers (or miles) on your car? Symptoms? Have you ever looked into cleaning, done any?

    My 2 cents: parts replacement through a dealership is overly expensive, and likely futile. They very likely will not clean the entire EGR circuit, which runs from the connection to exhaust, through the EGR cooler, then EGR valve, then a short pipe into intake manifold, through a gallery in the intake manifold and down capillary passages at each intake port.

    I would suggest you DIY clean every leg of that passage, thoroughly, and install an Oil Catch Can as well. More than likely all the existing parts are fine, just clogging.

    Some notes:

    The simplest way to see where you're at, is to check the degree of carbon build up in the EGR pipe, a stainless steel connecting pipe between the EGR valve and intake manifold. Watch @NutzAboutBolts video #16 here:

    Nutz About Bolts Prius Maintenance Videos | PriusChat

    Two or three other videos linked there too, for the full cleaning of the intake manifold, full EGR clean, and Oil Catch Can install.

    Good thread:

    EGR & Intake Manifold Clean Results | PriusChat

    Another:

    Oil Catch Can, Eliminate that knock! | PriusChat

    Some tools worth having:

    E8 Torx socket (mandatory)
    E6 Torx socket (optional, but good to have, to remove the throttle body studs from intake manifold)
    3/8" ratchet wrench, regular and long handle, flex head, you can never have enough (or 1/2 plus reducer)
    1/4" ratchet wrench, or 3/8" to 1/4" reducer
    Ratchet extensions: you can never have enough
    Long needle nose piers, straight and bent tip
    Ratcheting 12mm box wrench (optional, but makes disconnection of the EGR cooler from exhaust easier)
    Torque wrench (3/8" and 1/4" both good to have)
    Floor jack and safety stands (or ramps): basically some method to raise front, if you need to take underpanel off, which you may need to, both for access and to recover dropped items.
     
    #11 Mendel Leisk, Oct 19, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2019
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  12. rjp123

    rjp123 Member

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    The problem was not the manifold. It was a blown head gasket. I replaced it myself and the car has been running great ever since. In my case at least, the problem had nothing to do with the intake manifold. It was due to coolant leaking into the cylinders while the engine is off. It is just a small amount (about one teaspoonful in cylinder #2 in my case). When the engine starts the coolant is incompressible and makes the engine shake like it is going to jump out of the car until the coolant is passed out the exhaust (5-10 seconds). The gasket is just 50 bucks, but installing it is a lot of work.

    This thread describes my adventure.
    Violent engine shaking at startup. Miss fire codes all cylinders | Page 5 | PriusChat
     
    #12 rjp123, Oct 20, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2019
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  13. cmderks93

    cmderks93 New Member

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    Wow, what an answer!

    I've had now 175k km on the car. I've bought it two years ago at the dealership. I've bought it itln februari, so the first six to eight months there where no problems. When winter comes in, I've noticed some rattle / little shaking problems. Like you drove in the wrong gear with a manual.

    At that time I didn't realize it had something to do with the colder weather (lower than 15°C)

    I went to the dealership and they knew the problem and told me they had to cleanout the egr system. They said the egr system can be clogged and because of it, the recirculated gazes won't be spread out evenly on all cylinders and than I can experience what I did.

    So they had cleaned out the system, and I was good to go. (it was not very clogged that said, they have seen worse)

    After a while (I think one or two weeks) I had experienced the same problems, shaking / rattling. So I went back to the dealership and they checked out again, could not find anything and had replaced the spark plugs. Still not the solution.

    After a while they wanted the car back, for a week and they drove in it for that week, but could not experience the problems... For testing they had swaped out the ignition coils with ones from a other (newer) car. But the same evening (rainey and cold) I've had the problems again. I noticed the problems is only with the following:
    System has to be warmed up fully.
    Driving for a few kms on the ice.
    Then, after turning a Left turn or roundabout. Directly after that, the problem is back.

    Just a few seconds, after the turn, when the ice kicks in its there. When I floor it, the problem is directly gone. When I drive normal, the problem is gone in about 3 - 8 seconds. After that, we have record a while with techstream, but could not find anything. And they did an software update to address stutter / rattling. I noticed the ice will spin with more rpm at cold start.

    Than, the weather rized, so no symptoms anymore. Now, a couple months later the temperatures are dropping, and it's back again.
     
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  14. cmderks93

    cmderks93 New Member

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    Its a European Auris (same as 3th Gen prius) btw
     
  15. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Titanic Social Director

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    My hunch would be the dealership "claim" they've cleaned it completely, but haven't. Would you be up to removing/checking the intake manifold? Again, there's a @NutzAboutBolts video on that, same place. That might be what they've missed. It's really the last leg of the EGR circuit.
     
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  16. RMB

    RMB Senior Member

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    Assuming your Headgasket is good and EGR System is clean and clear, install an OCC. I remember reading something about cold weather knocks from Danlatu’s “Oil Catch Can” thread and adding OCC eliminates cold weather knocks along with cold start knocks.
     
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  17. gliderman

    gliderman Active Member

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    I have had a cold start knock three or four times many years ago when my 2010 was young. Haven't had any since. And no OCC. I dont see how they are connected in any way. 148k miles on the clock now and it runs great!
     
  18. cmderks93

    cmderks93 New Member

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    I've never experienced a cold start knock.
    Even with trying to get it, no knock.

    I've asked the dealer, (the meganic is really helpful) and also the small parts and little channels are cleaned. (don't know the exact English description) also the gasket of the intake manifold is changes. So, they have disassembled it for cleaning.

    Maybe an occ is an option for me than.

    Thanks
     
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