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Interesting article on energy independence and the global oil market

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by slowmachine, Mar 8, 2022.

  1. slowmachine

    slowmachine Member

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    audiodave, tochatihu and mjoo like this.
  2. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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  3. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    The folks needing to read this won’t
     
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  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    is losing russian oil such a big deal?
     
  5. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    While the US only uses very little of it, Russian oil is a major supply to the globe. When those that did make heavy use of Russian oil can't any more, they'll buy from other sources; including ones the US uses, and even US oil.
     
  6. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    Fungible commodity

    Similar to the Keystone XL predicted to raise not lower midwestern gas prices
     
  7. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Similar to Nord Stream pipeline expansion halt being used as a "sanction" while the XL halt is.....?????
     
  8. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Slapping down a corrupt enterprise: Corruption in the Pipeline: A Timeline of Keystone XL Misinformation - DeSmog

    Though plagued by corruption, the Keystone XL (KXL) “zombie pipeline” refuses to die.

    While firsthand accounts from front line communities in Alberta, Nebraska, Oklahoma, and Texas have galvanized activists, the interconnected web of corporate lobbyists, oil executives, and Obama administration officials continue to push the project forward.

    Thankfully, the State Department has launched an inquiry into conflicts of interest in the Keystone XL pipeline (KXL) review, specifically looking at the troubling revelations about TransCanada contractor, Environmental Resources Management (ERM Group).
    . . .

    Bob Wilson
     
  9. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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  10. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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  11. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    I can't say to what extent, but part of the reason diesel prices went up when ULSD came out was because refineries were able to sell it to Europe. Our old sulfur standard diesel was unacceptable to their regulations.
     
  12. davecook89t

    davecook89t Senior Member

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    Transporting oil by rail is a good solution to alleviate shortages that are unplanned and outside the control of democratic governments. Rail lines and cars are mostly already in existence and don't require major new investments. A new pipeline, such as the XL or even the TMX, requires substantial investment and is a long term solution. Once it is built, you can be sure it will be utilized to the maximum extent possible. Say goodbye to ever breaking the fossil fuel addiction.
     
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  13. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    Excellent points, but I guess I like the efficiency and safety of pipes over rail and ULCC (tankers.)
    I also like the fields in Alberta more than some offshore locations and ANWR.
    Not a NIMBY thing but rather safety, convenience, and adult supervision.

    Also….our northern neighbors are not likely to forget that the oil is in the ground, else they would not be building the Trans-Northern pipeline.
    Call me naive if you wish, but I trust the ECO-warriors in the US MORE than I trust them in some other places where the crude might be ‘refined’ and consumed.

    You don’t always beat addiction by forcing the patient to quit cold-turkey.
     
  14. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Because of the threat of spills, fires, and explosions. Trains transporting petroleum, and other hazardous material, are limited on what tracks they can use. Besides the question of whether there are tracks going where the oil is needed during a shortage, there is the logistics of getting the rail cars together. The majority are already in use moving oil around already. Something like a damaged pipeline could repaired and back in service before the trains are ready.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lac-M%C3%A9gantic_rail_disaster

    Pipelines are the safest, and most efficient way to transport petroleum. Synthetic gasoline plants are starting to be built. Made from water, CO2, and renewable energy, it is the same as petro gas chemically. Pipelines for petroleum today can be used for such carbon neutral fuels in the future.
     
  15. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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  16. davecook89t

    davecook89t Senior Member

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    I don't doubt that pipelines are the safest way to transport large quantities of oil. I do not expect that any existing pipelines will be sealed off anytime soon.

    The current Trans Mountain pipeline carries 300k barrels per day and will be necessary to help meet North American energy needs for the foreseeable future. The Trans Mountain Expansion pipeline is being laid alongside the current one and is expected to add 590k barrels per day that will be entirely destined for the Far East. The TMX would have been abandoned, except that the Canadian government stepped in to save it. It is now wholly owned by the taxpayers of Canada. The Trudeau government is the one that saved the pipeline, possibly to keep the western provinces from seceding, and even pushed the US not to give up on the Keystone XL, yet the Albertans still hate the feds (Go figure).

    It is a fantasy to believe that the Keystone XL would be used for anything other than transporting bitumen from the Tar Sands to refineries in Oklahoma and Texas, the extraction of which is estimated to result in an average of 17% more carbon emissions than conventional oil. If the oil companies with operations in the Tar Sands were serious about carbon capture and injection into deep wells rather than creating demonstration projects to show that is feasible, I would not object so strenuously to building the Keystone XL.

    Of course a large number of Canadians are not concerned about global warming. They live in one of the few places in the world where there might be a net benefit.;)
     
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  17. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    ^ NIMBY
    Instead of transporting the oil using the safest and most carbon neutral means, It's "statistically" "greener" to transport the oil using the safest and most carbon neutral means AND THEN place it aboard a ULCC (oil tanker) under a "flag of convenience" to avoid certain INCONVENIENT regulations and taxes....and thence sent ANYWHERE but in the US where it might be refined under those pesky US environmental standards.


    ...good plan.
    upload_2022-3-17_16-9-52.jpeg
     
    #17 ETC(SS), Mar 17, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2022
  18. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The use of eminent domain for private profits was my main reason against Keystone XL.

    Those Canadians may not have considered they'll be dealing with mud instead of snow with global warming.;)
     
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  19. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    #19 ETC(SS), Mar 17, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2022
  20. asjoseph

    asjoseph Samuel, '04 Ruthiemobile

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