Internet Poll: Prius vs Jetta

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by bwilson4web, Feb 24, 2009.

  1. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    I'd like to see a similar run allowing Wayne Gerdes and his crew to drive the Prius...let's see who's FE numbers look better then! Wouldn't even be close.
     
  2. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Remember that every city they arrive in has a different set of hot-spots so they can vote again and again. <wink>

    Bob Wilson
     
  3. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Unnecessary since we have the EPA and can probably dig up the European numbers easily enough. I'm more of a fan of standard tests and have grown to understand them better.

    If Wayne and crew were doing the driving, the only fair way would be to pay them to do a big loop that returns to the origin and switch vehicles every day at noon. This would give some idea of what the vehicle is doing.

    Actually I've grown a little tired of these mileage stunts. Too many of them lack an accurate log to understand speed, temperature, weather, and terrain. To me, this is critical to understanding what the vehicles are actually doing.

    FYI, I'm working on a new article along the lines of "EPA and Simple Math" or similar. I'd like to call it "EPA for Dummies" but I might run into some trademark issues with "for Dummies." I don't know if you remember me mumbling something about a collaborative book, well I've just about decided to give up on collaboration and do it myself. You'll see more about this later.

    Meanwhile, I like everybody enjoy a good joke. We're just tryin' to be a_friend to reality, the facts and data.

    Bob Wilson
     
  4. MSantos

    MSantos EcoAccelerometry

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    Hi Evan;

    That would indeed be a good thing to see and I am sure they would turn in superior numbers. But we already know the Gen-II Prius very well and what it can do in the hands of folks like Wayne. In fact, the last time Wayne did a significant attempt (the CBS Chicago to New York on a single tank of gas) he managed to get pretty good mileage at about 70 MPG or so for that stretch alone.
    Others among us have gotten very good mileage when taking the Prius over long highway distances too and we have a rough idea what the Prius is good for when pulling all the stops in that type of a "mostly highway" challenge.

    The main reason, the HCH was picked for the task is because the car of choice had to carry 3 people + gear during the winter months at legal highway speeds and still beat the TDI by a significant margin. In the hands of Wayne and others, the HCH-II can be an unbeatable highway FE monster and the Jetta TDI simply has no chance at all under the same conditions. As you recall, beating the summer record set by the Taylors in their TDi by just a few MPGs would not be enough for the gang.



    Bob:
    With all due respect, but based on your continuous and tiring contempt for the stuff you demonstrably do not understand, I sincerely doubt you know enough to know the difference between what's fair or not in matters relating to these contests.
    As a community, we can all make a difference for the better without resorting to the same old antics. I'll kindly remind you that there's a difference between "talking the path" and "walking the path"; and in matters of fuel economy and EPA Wayne and the gang have tirelessly done both.

    So, please give it a rest.


    MSantos
     
  5. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Relax my friend. Some folks are interested in what operators accomplish and others, like me, are interested in what engineers accomplish. Sad to say but I don't think we'll learn much about either the Prius or Jetta TDI engineering from the "GreenHuman" test unless they are swapping driving teams with reasonable frequency. If not, it is nearly useless.

    Assigning which team is operating individual vehicles still leaves us ignorant. However, swapping the operators between the vehicles might give us a clue ... by normalizing out the human factor.

    Using such a protocol still allows those who want to brag about their team to enjoy themselves. However, it also allows those who want to decide if a year's salary should be spent on one or the other vehicle to make an informed decision. Let me give you an example:
    #1 vehicle
    #2 vehicle
    A team
    B team
    If we send them out and assign them to separate vehicles and get:
    #1 and A = 50 MPG
    #2 and B = 55 MPG
    Which made a difference?

    So let us send them out and run four tests where they swap vehicles:
    #1 and A = 50 MPG
    #2 and B = 55 MPG
    #1 and B = 45 MPG
    #2 and A = 60 MPG
    Now we can draw some reasonable inferences:
    #1 vehicle average = 47.5 MPG
    #2 vehicle average = 57.5 MPG (** BEST BUY **)
    A team average = 55 MPG (** MOST SKILLED **)
    B team average = 50 MPG
    I don't care if the "A" team gets a nice trophy, photos, and a parade. Give them whatever honors folks want to bestow (just don't tax me except to cover expenses for both teams.) But when I go to the market place, I and others who need an efficient vehicle are going to look at vehicle "#2" much closer.

    Bob Wilson
     
  6. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    I was checking the poll count and learned something disappointing about the "greenhybrid" team:

    I emphasized the key phrases that pretty well describes how this "greenhuman", their producer, looks at the environment His posting pretty well claims his practice of turning off lights was some how forced upon him in a "tie dyed lefty camp." It expressed a resentment, an attitude that "I'll turn off the lights" in a Clockwork Orange sense. This is the passive-aggressive attitude found so often in the resentful.

    Now I'm not in any way, shape or form an environmentalists and at age 59, not likely to change. I am interested in quality engineering and efficiency, which seems to run parallel to many policies advocated by environmentalists. But in this case, 'producerjohn' has pretty well shown his resentment and skepticism of anything 'green.'

    Bob Wilson
     
  7. Mike Dimmick

    Mike Dimmick Active Member

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    Did someone call?

    VW Jetta 1.9 TDI BlueMotion 5-speed manual: 61.4mpg combined
    VW Jetta 1.9 TDI DSG 7-speed semi-auto: 53.3mpg combined
    VW Jetta 1.9 TDI 5-speed manual: 54.3mpg combined

    Someone 'round here claims that saloon/sedan bodystyles are more aerodynamic. Someone forgot to tell VW: the Golf 1.9 TDI BlueMotion gets 62.8mpg. (Jetta is basically a badge for a four-door Golf.)

    2G Prius: 65.7mpg
    3G Prius: reportedly 72.4mpg.

    Of course if you're doing long-distance driving, the 'extra-urban' mileage is more important; here the diesels have the edge, the 2G Prius only managing 67.3mpg, the Jetta BlueMotion getting 72.4mpg. Again, the semi-auto box is worse at 60.1mpg.

    As I've said on other threads, the EU test is not very representative as it only contains a short run at 75mph and a little at 60, most of it being below 45. That generally make the Prius look better than it is, and most other cars (being sized for very high speeds/fast accelerations) look worse than they are, for sustained highway driving.
     
  8. cycledrum

    cycledrum PSOCSOASP

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    Never driven the Jetta, don't want a sedan, but I'd take that exquisite leather Jetta seat in my Prius any day. Really good car for a tall person.
     
  9. tlaine

    tlaine New Member

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    Sorry to keep this going if no one was interested. But I think it is rather funny that they extended the time for the survey. It was about 3 - 5 days left and they extended it to 13 days left now.
     
  10. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Funny? No. That's hysterical !!!

    The hope to paint a bad picture for Prius is obviously backfiring. Extending the deadline is a clear act of desperation, seeing results like that...

    257 Prius
    205 Jetta TDI
    .
     
  11. dalea

    dalea Junior Member

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    I can't decide which one to vote for as I own one of each and like both of them. A 2007 Prius with 36K miles and no problems and a 2009 Jetta TDI sedan with only 3K miles. The Prius gets a little better mileage overall, 48 avg vs. 43 for the Jetta. The Prius has the high tech gadgets which I love. The Jetta has more power and feels better on the road at 75 mph. I think each car is a great achievement and hopefully there will be more cars like them on the market in the future.
     
  12. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    What I don't understand is why they are visiting all these VW dealers. Is that in case the Jetta breaks down??
     
  13. MSantos

    MSantos EcoAccelerometry

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    I sincerely hope not. ;)

    But, it also helps underscore their premeditated intent to fail the Prius at every opportunity.
    Out of the few places they can visit that can offer a negative view of the Prius is to visit a VW shop. From ignorant and technically inept salespeople to ill informed general staff and technicians, these dealership stops offer them ample opportunities to jab their message across. I guess if they have enough of these folks repeating the same choir lines then maybe it will start ringing true?

    In other words: "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers"

    Cheers;

    MSantos
     
  14. usbseawolf2000

    usbseawolf2000 HSD PhD

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  15. danl

    danl New Member

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  16. fredthepostman

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    Just voted. Prius in lead by 65 votes.
     
  17. patsparks

    patsparks An Aussie perspective

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  18. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Yes, and don't do like the Chicago TDI owners who clear their cookies and vote multiple times for the Prius.

    HEY NO FAIR! They changed the voting interval so now there are 12 days left! Seems they must be running behind.

    What cracks me up is to watch the 'interviews' and seeing the guy with the mike, ask a question and pull the mike away from the other person so the answers are 'clipped.' It isn't mean, just amusing.

    BTW, it looks like their concept of a 'dialog' means ignore the blog. Hummmm, perhaps we could have some Prius owners waiting at one of their announced VW dealerships ...

    Bob Wilson
     
  19. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    While I was on vacation last week, I was using a shared computer at the place I was staying at, and voted 5 or 6 times doing exactly that. However eventually I could no longer increment the vote count.
     
  20. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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