Iranians Love Americans

Re: Iranians Loves Americans

Nate:

Yeah it makes me wonder that if America is such a "bad" place why do so many people yearn to reach her shores?

I also think it's suspicious that when you look at the "brain drain" of many countries, such as Canada, where do most of those bright energetic folks want to emigrate to?

http://www.theurc.com/braindrain.cfm

 

Re: Iranians Loves Americans

It is a good thing Nate posted this topic in Fred's House of Pancakes! I found the article highly interesting as the subject matter so parallels many aspects of the situation in the US today.

I know a few Iranian families in the San Francisco Bay Area who fled Iran under the Shah, leaving their status, wealth and extended families forever in hopes of bringing their children (now adults, some in the US Armed Services) up in a less repressive atmosphere. Where these family heads were once among the moneyed elite they now work at menial jobs with the satisfaction that their children are at least free to choose their own lives. For these family heads to return to Iran, even now, 30 years later they would face certain imprisonment, torture and death. They communicate with relatives via phone and through the internet and report their relatives reflect many of the same sentiments of this article. Those left behind had high hopes when the Shah fled, but seem to regret the turn their country has taken under the rule of the mullahs.

Interesting how some of the same themes expressed about the Canadian government, current Iranian government and US government are so close, ie. government mismanagement, how hard it is to make a living, get the necessities of life taken care of and by projection how the people feel stifled by their respective political parties/representatives. One thing I learned when the Soviet Union was still under communism via citizen diplomacy and exchange, is that universally people just want to be left alone to lead normal lives as they choose, to love their children, how they want basic freedoms and believe the only way to achieve these simple desires is through peace.

So far the US has benefited greatly from 'brain drain' of people leaving other lands, but that may change as the US government is perceived as becoming more under the influence of the religious right-wingers and becomes more repressive to 'normal' ways of thinking.

Part if Iran's problem is oil and who (nations? corporations?) gets to control that dwindling resource, and thus how this discussion fits into Prius Chat at all. Another serious problem in Iran and the rest of the world is electric power and specifically the nuclear power question. What was once touted as clean and too cheap to measure has shown through reality and experience to have a very dark side, ie. saddling future generations infinitum with the toxic waste, and a byproduct which is needed for nuclear weapons programs. These byproducts are extremely destabilizing politically. Some think so much so that perhaps nuclear is not the way to go and that perhaps we should look in other directions for our energy like wind, water, solar and/or as yet to be discovered ways of electricity generation. Taking a lesson from the past many also think what ever future form of power we have should also be decentralized thereby not making a target of those forms of electrical power generation. Most also agree that coal and oil are too dirty and finite for a permanent answer.

Getting back to the article in more detail, many US corporations had offices in Iran before the revolution and as the US workers fled Iran and returned home their overwhelming thoughts/stories were that the Iranian people and culture were ancient, advanced and endearing, even as corporate profits disproportionably lined the pockets of the ruling elite and were removed from the country thereby leading to destabilization as the government coffers were not filled enough to modernize the country. This eventually led to resentment of the masses (sound familiar?) who organized and were then manipulated by secret US government agencies (sound familiar?) causing the ruling elite to dismiss and/or stifle political opposition (sound familiar?) as unpatriotic. It was openly questioned in 1980 why President Carter was unable to end the hostage standoff, but yet on the date of Reagan's inauguration those hostages were suddenly and coincidentally let free. Ruling party (corporations) back in power?

The parallels of the US to Iran are unnerving and continuing with the feelings of ordinary people who really only want democracy unpolluted by religious influences (Iran today) which have proven since time immoral not to mix well. The framers of our constitution recognized this and stated in writing that there must be separation of church and State or as stated in the article if I may paraphrase "Religion should stay out of politics-politics is dirty and only corrupts people".

 

Re: Iranians Loves Americans

MarinJohn:

An excellent and well thought out post.

I fear that we (By we I mean the United States of America) are entering the sunset of our crowning achievements. We appear to have become lazy and rest on our laurels, expecting wealth to just land in our lap, not really understanding that constant innovation and change is necessary to grow.

There is always hope that people will figure this out in time and change our direction. It's truly ironic that first generation immigrants who fled brutal regimes are here to warn us of this, but we pay no attention.

 

Re: Iranians Loves Americans

Iranians Love Americans . . .

. . . but not as much as Ward Churchill and Michael Moore love the hard-line Iranian clerics.

 

Re: Iranians Loves Americans

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MarinJohn\";p=\"67094)</div>

I find it quite telling that President Jimmy Carter - a graduate of the U.S. Naval Academy - was “honored†by having his name attached to a submarine. Whereas President Ronald Reagan - and actor during WWII - was honored with an aircraft carrier in his name. A submarine is perceived as non-threatening because it is not seen . . . just like President Carter during the Iranian Hostage Conflict. An aircraft carrier on the other hand CAN BE in-your-face threatening if you are not an ally.

I can tell you first hand that on Inauguration Day the Iranians saw two big carrier task forces closer in than ever before. THAT is what scared the #!)$&)^ (*hostages) out of them.
Coincidence my nice person!!!

I hear the Navy was also considering a submarine for President Clinton. They reconsidered when they figured a sub would not quite accurately portray him properly. They couldn’t figure out how to put a Peyronie's disease bend in the hull and not cause it to perpetually steer far to port (left). There were also additional considerations: How to erect a large pair of lips for the entry into its port. A party cruise ship would have been a fitting tribute, but the Navy doesn’t have any.

 

Re: Iranians Loves Americans

Patrick:

Swish!

You the man!

BTW: think CU will ever fire Ward? If he wants to go around telling people the 9/11 victims basically "deserved it," well I guess he's free to exercise his First Amendment of the Bill of Rights. Doesn't change the fact he's an a** and a p****.

But to take advantage of the Affirmative Action statement on the job application by stating he was a Native American when it appears he is *not*, that's an entirely different matter.

Don't even get me started on Michael Moore. I love how he suggested that Canadians don't have to lock their doors at night. H*** the homicide rate in Winnipeg is getting scary. A lot of folks up here wish we had something similar to the Second Amendment to the Bill of Rights.

 

Re: Iranians Loves Americans

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sufferin' Prius Envy\";p=\"67135)</div>

:lol:

Oi! You kill me!

:lol:

 

Re: Iranians Loves Americans

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jayman\";p=\"67121)</div>

“ . . .(By we I mean the United States of America) . . .â€

- jayman
Location: Winnipeg Manitoba

Confused are we? :?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jayman\";p=\"67136)</div>

Indeed, it is the armed status of the American people that prevents our being made slaves of.

The majority of UK "burglaries" are "hot", meaning that they are subjected to deliberate home invasion. This only happens 13% of the time in America where criminals fear the possible encounter with the very likely armed resident.

The violent crime rate in the UK is significantly higher than the USA rate, and climbing. USA crime rates continue to fall as the numbers of guns in the hands of the people hit a new high every month.

There are more guns in the hands of Americans than there are Americans, or even people in America.

 

Re: Iranians Loves Americans

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sufferin' Prius Envy\";p=\"67142)</div>

No. I'm a dual citizen.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Robert Taylor\";p=\"67149)</div>

Robert:

This is also a problem in Canada. In Winnipeg, Home Invasions are becoming a huge concern. In today's Winnipeg Free Press, a 40 year old man and his 39 year old wife were arrested and charged with a 10 month long Home Invasion spree that targeted elderly folks living alone.

They used firearms to threaten their victims, and in several cases the man threw the elderly person to the floor hard enough to cause a broken hip. In over a dozen cases, severe injuries (broken bones, bruising, etc) resulted.

Now I ask you, what sort of SOB, what sort of piece of s***, does *that* to *anybody* let alone a frail elderly person?? Hmmmm? Boy, what a "man" if he can beat the s*** out of an old man or an old woman twice his age!

BTW: here in Canada, if a home owner tries to defend their life or property, especially with a firearm, they are in DEEP s***.

Ironically, it's very interesting that despite the Liberal Party of Canada dreaming up a "National Firearm Registry" with a cost approaching $2 Billion (It was supposed to cost $10 million), this system hasn't prevented a single violent firearm-related offence. It doesn't even work.

I swear that if I ever hear of some young punk or some other piece of s*** even *trying* a Home Invasion to my elderly parents, I'll hunt them down like an animal. And the "justice" system here could then go f*** itself.

Criminals here know they have nothing to fear from their cowering victims and especially from the police (Use of Deadly Force is restricted here and rarely invoked).

 

Re: Iranians Loves Americans

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jayman\";p=\"67152)</div>

Nothing wrong with that.
Curious: Does that mean twice the country to love or twice the government to hate?

If I were no longer to be a U.S. citizen . . . it would be Canada or Australia for me. Only other two I could see myself living in permanently. BC or Perth.

 

I hope, rather than get off thread moderators will move the important thread that is developing to another thread entirely. This Iranian thread could turn out to be an interesting thread on it's own. Same with the second ammendment thread.

 

Re: Iranians Loves Americans

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Sufferin' Prius Envy\";p=\"67157)</div>

Both!



Seriously, if I have to move again, I'd be torn between Mesquite, Nevada, St. George, Utah, or Deer Valley, Utah

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MarinJohn\";p=\"67166)</div>

Uh-oh, that could be a Hot Potato.

That's it! How about a Hot Potato forum??

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jayman\";p=\"67155)</div>

Robert:

This is also a problem in Canada. In Winnipeg, Home Invasions are becoming a huge concern. In today's Winnipeg Free Press, a 40 year old man and his 39 year old wife were arrested and charged with a 10 month long Home Invasion spree that targeted elderly folks living alone.

They used firearms to threaten their victims, and in several cases the man threw the elderly person to the floor hard enough to cause a broken hip. In over a dozen cases, severe injuries (broken bones, bruising, etc) resulted.

Now I ask you, what sort of SOB, what sort of piece of s***, does *that* to *anybody* let alone a frail elderly person?? Hmmmm? Boy, what a "man" if he can beat the s*** out of an old man or an old woman twice his age!

BTW: here in Canada, if a home owner tries to defend their life or property, especially with a firearm, they are in DEEP s***.

Ironically, it's very interesting that despite the Liberal Party of Canada dreaming up a "National Firearm Registry" with a cost approaching $2 Billion (It was supposed to cost $10 million), this system hasn't prevented a single violent firearm-related offence. It doesn't even work.

I swear that if I ever hear of some young punk or some other piece of s*** even *trying* a Home Invasion to my elderly parents, I'll hunt them down like an animal. And the "justice" system here could then go f*** itself.

Criminals here know they have nothing to fear from their cowering victims and especially from the police (Use of Deadly Force is restricted here and rarely invoked).
[/b][/quote]

It is unlawful in the UK to defend yourself with any means. The Telegraph is conducting a campaign to try to get that changed legally. The articles feature the blackened faces of the elderly who were beaten to near death by the home invaders.

The UK just sentenced a man to a long jail to killing a home invader with a sword. This Manchester homeowner had a trio of home invaders kick in his door. One of the home invaders was gun armed. The homeowner used a sword to kill one of them. The homeowner has been sent to jail for many years over his killing a home invader.

The best way to get the police in the UK to come to the aid of a citizen whose home has been invaded is to call and say that they are going to attack the criminal. The response is "you can't do that, we will send a car right away".

The police made a 93 year old woman take down her fence because some burglar might injure himself while invading her home.

 

Where do you get this nonsense, Mr Taylor? You've got a full right to use reasonable force in self-defence. Including killing someone, if it comes to it.

There are some right-wing nutjobs like yourself and other Telegraph readers who think that isn't enough and want the right to use unreasonable force to defend their property. Ie the right to shoot anyone who is trespassing. That may be the way you like to do things in the US, but I think I'll skip it, ta.

That sword thing you quote isn't quite the whole truth. Do some research. The chap with a sword was a drug dealer, not just some random poor innocent householder. The burglars fled when they saw the sword. He then stabbed one of the fleeing burglars four times in the back. He was cleared of murder but got eight years for manslaughter, the surviving burglars got 14 years each.

I admire the way the looney right manages to pick out half-truths and out-of-context stories to promote their agenda.

And the UK more violent than the US? In your dreams, mate. See this reference to what I think may be the study you quote.

Summary: according to a US department of justice report, the UK has more assault, burglary, and car theft. Big deal. In the US the murder rate is 5.7 times higher, and the rape rate is 3 times higher. I know where I'd rather be.

So, more half-truths.

I find people who seem to be itching to have the opportunity to murder a "home invader" rather disturbing.

 

Re: Iranians Loves Americans

Jayman: .

I have often thought of the US in this day and age as a declining empire, and it is painful to see it that way. As you state, we have been shown the error of our ways by many, but continue down the slippery slope with our collective insolence. It is easy to compare us to the latter stages of the Roman Empire, British Empire, Ottoman Empire etc., but yet we seem to 'forget' history and go on our arrogant ways. Some of these ways are our refusal to lead the 'civilized' world in respecting our environment/atmosphere (Easter Island?) taunting less fortunate countries with our might (Ancient Greece?) and thumbing our noses at our own people (Ancient Rome?) etc. It would be sad if we made these mistakes in a vaccuum, but we have history as a model of what doesn't work and choose to ignore it. It hurts those sensitive and intelligent visionaries that we are dragged down with the ship so unnecessarily when they can see where we are headed. An empire usually declines gradually, until some major catastrophic event, and that 'event' may be the short-sitedness of short term profits that does it for us. Occasionally I feel optimistic that perhaps we are just having 'growing pains', but it seems there are so many more reasons in number to be pessimistic. Naturally each generation feeds upon the previous and feels 'it may be so, but not in MY lifetime', but sooner or later one generation in particular will realize it is so and it's too late to recover.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(KMO\";p=\"67189)</div>

I have read several news reports from UK broadsheets about this particular home invasion and there has been no mention of any drugs involved, and if there were, they still invaded this mans home.

Here is a link to the story, the facts of which support my statements:

http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2687311

Yet another story about how a homeowner killed a one of several home invaders and was convicted of murder:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/717511.stm

Here is an article with the title of:

Let public fight back against the burglars

...The Conservative Party last night threw its weight behind calls to reform the law that restricts homeowners from protecting themselves against intruders.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml.../ixnewstop.html

Furthermore, within its peer group of very large multiracial nations, the United States has the worlds lowest murder rate. This article goes over the rates of murder per 100,000 populace in each of these nations and others. Now, I do not know why large multiracial nations have higher murder rates but this is the way things are worldwide. Racially similiar smaller nations such as Japan or Switzerland have lower murder rates, but the Swiss are armed to the teeth, and the Japanese disarmed.

But the misery of higher violent crime rate is driven in the UK by pure policy decisions.

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/second_amendment/rk0405/

Violent crime in UK TWICE the USA rate:

http://www.tsra.com/Lott112.htm

Oh, and the lady ordered to take down the fence?

http://www.holford.org.uk/meanderings/mean...ings14-1-03.htm