Is 25 to 40 mile range enough for everyday?

Discussion in 'Prime Fuel Economy & EV Range' started by dbstoo, Nov 27, 2021.

  1. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    It comes at the cost of Toyota’s chosen Prime platform being unsalable after the 10kwhr minimum battery PHEV law takes effect
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    and non union. but it never sold well to begin with. first we pass a bill to encourage ev's, then we try to pop open the strategic oil. i'm not sure if any of it matters (n)
     
  3. gene

    gene Member

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    It will definitely depend on your needs. For me, 99% of my day to day driving is covered by the Prius Prime range, sometimes with a second charge during the middle of the day.

    Almost all of my longer trips are > 50 miles, so I’d need a BEV to do them on EV. We considered a RAV4 Prime, but went with the PP since the RAV4 still didn’t have the range for more of our weekend longer trips, and the Prius Prime is way more efficient (1,000 lbs makes a big difference).

    Next vehicle will almost certainly be a BEV though—I get totally annoyed with the emissions and noise of the ICE now.
     
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  4. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    True. The sample here is biased but Toyota did say it’ll cover most (not all) and based on the survey, it appears to be covering “most” daily travelled distance as expected. Again, this survey works only because one bought a Prime because it fit the criteria of low cost of ownership and the fact it covers all or most daily trips; if not, you’d be in the RAV4 Prime fora.
     
  5. dbstoo

    dbstoo Active Member

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    That's an interesting theory, Tidelands. The original post had no mention about cost, nor about general satisfaction. You can hate the car and still find that it fulfill your daily driving needs.

    Dan
     
  6. Rmay635703

    Rmay635703 Senior Member

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    Strategic oil is big but not a decades long force of nature big, just delays the inevitable

    our only hope is that this policy motivates oil non-market forces actively limiting supply to renig

    That said a controlled increase in retail fuel prices and targeted taxes can motivate consumer behavior in the proper direction.

    At the end of the day regardless of how we motivate ourselves reducing resource use is most important as it drives how much pollution we make.
     
  7. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    I’ve had two colleagues buy a Prime after me. Both were intrigued by the lost cost of ownership and the lower entry price compared to the regular Prius after incentives.

    One walks to work, so the Prime is primarily used for trips to the ski hills and he charges it at home and at destinations where possible. Yet, a Prime was his replacement vehicle for his old one.
     
  8. Leadfoot J. McCoalroller

    Leadfoot J. McCoalroller Senior Member

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    Ugh, really? a minimum battery size?

    What's next, minimum 8500lb curb weight and tandem rear axles?
     
  9. PiPLosAngeles

    PiPLosAngeles Senior Member

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    It's not just distance. On flat interstates I can get about 37-40 miles from a charge in the PP, but going up a mountain road I barely make 7 miles. People that have to deal with hills and mountains need WAY more battery than people living in flat areas.
     
  10. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    Also, people living in a cold climate have to figure ~50% reduction in EV range during winter. My PP was getting ~35 miles of EV range just a few months ago. Yesterday, at ambient temp 19F, I got less than 20 miles of total EV range from a full charge.:(
     
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  11. PiPLosAngeles

    PiPLosAngeles Senior Member

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    Kind of daunting to realize that someone living in a mountainous, cold climate would need nearly 5 times the battery capacity of a person living in a flat, warm climate to get similar mileage.
     
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  12. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    For my region and for my driving needs, if relying on a single car for all my driving needs, I would need a minimum of 400 miles range between refuel/recharge both in summer and winter. AFAIK, NO BEV on the market currently satisfies this requirement. If the car is used strictly for local driving only, then ~150 miles of EV range (assuming it will be ~75 miles during winter) would be the minimum I need. For commuting only daily drive, the minimum EV range would be ~80 miles (assuming ~40 miles during winter). I don't think there are any PHEV with 80 miles of EV range?
     
  13. PiPLosAngeles

    PiPLosAngeles Senior Member

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    Is that assuming a long charge time? With a Tesla you can easily go 400 miles in a day with one 15-minute stop at a super charger.
     
  14. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    I often do a single-day round trip of ~800 miles (400 miles each way). For most cars, it is a single stop each way at a gas station for 5min. I often do this trip with my PP with just a single stop preparing the car day before with a full tank to start the trip. A long-range Tesla in the summertime may work. I would have to stop at a supercharger along the way (once or maybe twice each way) that adds up the time. Not sure if I can get to the destination and back in time. In winter, I wouldn't want to try this trip on any BEVs, even a long-range Tesla, assuming a ~50% reduction of EV range in the worst-case scenario.

    Besides the logistics, currently, any BEV that can make 800 miles/day trip would be too expensive. Certainly not as cost-effective as PP. In this regard, I have to agree with Toyota's strategy on EV shift. As long as there are cheaper PHEV options out there to go 400+ miles, I am not switching to 100% BEV. I would rather buy a cheap BEV (like Leaf) for local drives where 150 miles EV range will satisfy 99% of my needs and buy another more upscale larger PHEV (SUV or minivan) for daily hauling requirements and occasional long trips.
    Toyota EV Strategy Explained: Affordability Vs. Range
     
    #34 Salamander_King, Dec 1, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2021
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  15. dbstoo

    dbstoo Active Member

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    I don't drive a Tesla, but when I've looked at the charging plans for long trips, they assume that you start with a full battery and arrive at your destination with a nearly empty one. So that 15 minute stop at the super charger has to be followed up with another supercharger session at your destination or charging your tesla on a level 1 or level 2 charger overnight at the destination.

    Sorry for the off topic post.
     
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  16. Henrik Helmers

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    The range is why I bought the PHEV. 1000km is incredible. Extended EV range and being able to run cleanly in town is a nice bonus.
     
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  17. dbstoo

    dbstoo Active Member

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    That's an interesting take on it. It IS fun to see people's faces when I tell them that I get more than 50 MPG while driving at 75 MPH (120 kph) in mountainous terrain. My mother in law was aghast when I told her that we only needed 5 gallons to top off the tank after a 300 mile jaunt. She did the math faster than I did.
     
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  18. jerrymildred

    jerrymildred Senior Member

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    :D:LOL:
    I get that reaction, too. And then I say something like, "And people buy other cars why?" :ROFLMAO:
     
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  19. dig4dirt

    dig4dirt MoonGlow

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    Always think that with every car on the road that is not fuel efficient/hybrid/electric/etc.
    I just had to lend a relative $200 cash for 3 days since they needed for gas for their truck until their payday came.
    Glad I am not in that position. I did get it back the day they promised!

    Between my two cars and two 5 gal containers filled, I only need to buy gas every 3 months or so.
    And I buy it with gas points and credit card cash back etc. So end up maybe $50-60
    However less mileage then others.

    If/when we have two Primes....might be that once a year thing :)
     
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  20. Salamander_King

    Salamander_King Senior Member

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    When I was doing annual ~15K miles driving, the fuel efficiency was much more important. But now with a weekly drive of ~70 miles, 60mpg of PP or 25mpg of PathHy is not a huge difference. We always had one very fuel-efficient car and another large minivan or SUV for hauling needs. We use the fuel-efficient car for longer trips when more space is not needed. But if we decide to keep only one car, we will have to keep the low fuel-efficient SUV. Yep, it will cost more to operate, but smaller PP will not serve our hauling needs.
     
    #40 Salamander_King, Dec 4, 2021
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2021
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