Is Hell Forever?

Being an "unbeliever", I don't think my answer to the poll would be relevant.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ Apr 28 2006, 07:19 AM) [snapback]246616[/snapback]</div>

So some people know enough to have an answer with some heft, and some people have opinions that aren't real answers. I'm glad you at least put it right out there unlike most people. =)

Let's hear your thought. Please include your credentials (ie, "four years of seminary and can read Hebrew and Greek," or "read it on a page I Googled five minutes ago," etc.) Also, bear in mind that a single verse out of context (which may or may not be your intention here) is not too impressive to most of us. Presumably you are going to set forth a well-supported group of verses that consistently support your idea. Sounds interesting.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(zapranoth @ Apr 28 2006, 10:28 AM) [snapback]246618[/snapback]</div>

Are credentials really necessary? Over 40 years as a student of the Bible isn't good enough?
Acts 4:13 - Now when they beheld the outspokenness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were men unlettered and ordinary, they got to wondering. And they began to recognize about them that they used to be with Jesus.
Luke was a physician. Many of the apostles were fisherman. Matthew was a tax collector.
Paul was formally trained in the highest schools of religious learning of his time, and considered it to be a lot of garbage:
Phillipians 3:8 - Why, for that matter, I do indeed also consider all things to be loss on account of the excelling value of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord. On account of him I have taken the loss of all things and I consider them as a lot of refuse, that I may gain Christ."
1 Corinthians 1:26-29 - For YOU behold his calling of YOU, brothers, that not many wise in a fleshly way were called, not many powerful, not many of noble birth; but God chose the foolish things of the world, that he might put the wise men to shame; and God chose the weak things of the world, that he might put the strong things to shame; and God chose the ignoble things of the world and the things looked down upon, the things that are not, that he might bring to nothing the things that are, in order that no flesh might boast in the sight of God.
The Bible was written BY common people FOR common people. God never intended that discussions of the Bible be limited only to people with "certain credentials". It was thinking like that that kept the Bible out of people's hands for hundreds of years, and people were burned at the stake for even owning a Bible, far from God's intentions.

 

OK, here goes. Catholic school for 6 years. No indoctrination/brainwashing in some divinity school.

Given a choice between God existing and God not existing, I pick existing. Just not as taught to me.

I believe all Organized Religion needs people to show up often and pay money, and so most popular religions make God out to be a benevolent tyrant who rewards grovelers while damning uncompliant people to eternal torture. All human experiences (especially sex) are taught to generate sin, which only constant attendance at a religious service can mitigate. http://www.bibleufo.com/hell.htm seems to conflict with "Dante's Inferno" and the like, which is typical of how things work: if you read the Bible and don't interpret it 'correctly', that's another form of sin. The people who need Hell to keep people bringing money have shaped it to fit as needed.

So it's all a scam: one that fits some good works in when not killing non-believers. L. Ron Hubbard proved that once a scam gets rolling, people who have been swept up by the scam will keep it rolling. Older scams have been rolling longer, since after a few years you can't prove a story isn't true anymore. On "The 700 Club" years ago, they said that even if someone could really and truely prove that some article of faith was wrong, people should continue to believe. What wasn't said, just implied, was to keep the cash and checks coming.

Hope that helps...

 

There has not been one person that has been to "hell" and back again to tell of it except in myths. Hell is man-made I think most people surviving war will concur.

 

My vision of hell is where you sit for an eternity and have nothing to do but watch TV or look at priuschat.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Begreen @ Apr 28 2006, 01:08 PM) [snapback]246706[/snapback]</div>

I HAVE been to hell and back again. Well, maybe not hell, but Corpus Christi, Texas.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Begreen @ Apr 28 2006, 11:08 AM) [snapback]246706[/snapback]</div>

Not true. Wasn't there a John Wayne movie called "To Hell and Back"?

 

one can visit and send a postcard from Hell, the town on Grand Cayman called 'Hell' with official post office and tons of postcards, a tourist attraction.

personally I have seen so many places like hell on earth already, just following places where UNHCR is engaging or Medcins Sans Frontieres...
MSF
UNHCR

 

Intresting links:

http://www.parentalguide.com/Documents/Doc...ake_of_fire.htm

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt...2006-08,DAUS:en

 

The very concept of an "eternal" hell, or heaven, betrays just how poorly we understand what "eternity" really means, and how poor our imaginations are.

What's a lifetime? 100 years these days in most of the developed world? And what do we say? For infractions committed, intentionally or not, in that infinitely tiny sliver of time in the universe, a "human" soul will spend the rest of the universe's existence in torment.

Think about it. 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years from now, about 1,000,000,000,000 big bang cycles, a tourist in a civilization that has discovered how to actually travel to hell and runs tourist buses through its chasms will ask one of hell's "locals" how long he's been there and for what offense, and the "local" will say "I failed to believe in the great fang-toothed wammagotcha 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years and 6 days ago and pleeeeze get me out of here!"

Stupid does not even begin to describe the sheer idiocy of this notion.

And how do most people envision heaven? As place utterly absent of conflict, challenge, adversity? After a pretty exciting and enjoyable 100 years in a life that bruised us as well as exhilirated us, we're gonna spend 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 years doing NOTHING but feeling fine, no more use to ourselves than if we were in a drugged stupor, and that's only the BEGINNING of eternity?

Gag!!!!!!

Anyone with a molecule of imagination has GOT to be repulsed by such a vision.

This I WILL say: ONLY a human mind could concoct such a horror.

Mark Baird
Alameda CA

 

Hell is watching George Steinbrenner holding the World Series trophy. It only feels like eternity.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(airportkid @ Apr 28 2006, 08:39 PM) [snapback]246924[/snapback]</div>

But if humans are made in the image of God, how could we think of what He could not? It make a pretty lousy argument to dismiss an idea simply by calling it stupid. It is not required for people to like or even understand a reality for it to be real. Myself, I think the limitation of the speed of light is a gastly and ridiculous thing. Even so, the limit remains. Now, the speed of light is a measurable thing and accepted by science. Everything having to do with the hearafter can only come from prophecy, and prophecy can only be believed by faith. So, the only thing to do is to decide which story, including any that contain no hearafter, is the one for a particular individual to believe. Myself, I choose to believe the Bible. The remainder of my statement is dependent on that belief.

I think Revelation 20:7-15 tells an interesting story. This occurs after the end of the tribulation and the thousand year reign. (this is KJV)

I think that when we think of hell, our vision of everlasting torment, we are really thinking of the lake of fire. The hell mentioned here is definitivly finite. In 13, hell gave up its dead to the great judgment. This implys hell is a holding place. Verse 10 says the lake of fire and brimstone is the final and everlasting place of torment. Anyone not in the book of life goes here.

So my conclusion is that the place literally called hell is temporary, but a place of eternal torment is real.

As a side note, I am rather interested in verse 13. "Death and hell" are mentioned together, giving up the dead the same as the sea. It is almost as if all three are literal place one can physically be. I'm no scholar, so if anyone has heard a discussion on this verse, I would love to hear about it.

 

Personally, I'm still waitig for someone to provide EVIDENCE of the existence of 1) g_d, 2) heaven and 3) hell. So let's start there! Then we can talk about longevity issues.

I know - someone always demands that proof be provided that g_d, heaven, hell do not exist. The folks who claim it must provide the evidence. Self referents (as in the Bible) do not work. Proving non-existence is a logical impossibility. So the claimers of EXISTENCE bear the burden of proof!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(larkinmj @ Apr 28 2006, 06:09 PM) [snapback]246837[/snapback]</div>

Careful. Been there and I found it was one "hell of a place". Really. I mean it. Just be sure to keep yer' shoes on!