Is it possible to plug charge reg battery?

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Technical Discussion' started by Kronos316, Aug 5, 2013.

  1. Kronos316

    Kronos316 Junior Member

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    Hello Everyone,
    Im wondering If anyone has any info on being able to maybe use a regular battery charger (car type) to keep the larger battery always full, at least when you first leave. Its seems it should be simple enough to do theoretically. I know they have all kinds of supper expensive after market things available. It would be nice to always leave with a full charge and do it cheaply.
    Matthew
     
  2. jdcollins5

    jdcollins5 Senior Member

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    By larger battery I assume you mean the HV battery. If so, the answer is no. The HV battery is recharged mainly by regen braking and by MG1. This is regulated by the car Battery Management ECU which does a really good job.

    The Battery Management ECU keeps the charge between 40 and 80% with 60% being ideal for normal driving. The battery bars on display represent this.

    If you want a full charge when you leave you will have to figure out how to have a full charge when you get home and park it.

    Of course you can always upgrade to a Plug-in Prius :)
     
  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    best way is to spin the wheels with a little motor and roller while it's parked.(y) of course, anything can be done by someone with enough knowledge and determination.
     
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  4. Kronos316

    Kronos316 Junior Member

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    Ill bet theres a place somewhere that a couple alligator clips will fully charge that thing.
     
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    exactly. but where?(n)
     
  6. Kronos316

    Kronos316 Junior Member

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    (y) ill keep digging.
     
  7. xpcman

    xpcman Senior Member

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    I think the traction battery is 240 volts - so that 12v charger will not do you any good.

    You have an electrically ASSISTED vehicle - you do not have an electrical vehicle.
     
  8. g4_power

    g4_power Junior Member

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    It's not worth getting hurt or killed by messing with the traction battery. I think the Prius battery is only about 1/4 the size of the battery in PiP. You'll be saving very little money by trying to charge it from an outlet.
     
  9. David Beale

    David Beale Senior Member

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    The traction battery voltage is very dangerous. Yes, you face that level of voltage in your home from time to time, but you face AC. This is DC. It will lock your muscles and you won't be able to let go. AC will cause you to jerk away.

    It would be a "bad thing" (tm) to charge the traction battery, bypassing the Prius systems.

    It needs headroom for regen, and charging it will eliminate that, though the car's systems will quickly use up whatever you put in. That -might- get you a few extra miles of EV driving, as in one or two. Is that worth the effort and risk?

    Further, fully charging the traction battery will cause it to heat up a lot. NIMH cells start to convert a lot of the charge energy to heat after they reach 80% charge.

    Finally, attempting to fully charge the traction battery will cause you to over charge a few cells, the ones that have the lowest capacity in the pack. They would then loose a bit of electrolyte due to the overcharging, and would therefore loose a bit more capacity. Eventually through enough cycles of this they would loose enough capacity that they would cause the whole battery to fail.

    These are -some- of the reasons the engineers set the Prius to operate the traction battery between about 30% and 80% charge.

    DON'T MESS WITH THAT!

    ;)
     
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  10. Ct. Ken V

    Ct. Ken V Active Member

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    xpcman,

    I'm not sure about the HV battery voltage on the 2010 & newer Priuses (& definitely know nothing presently about the plug-in Prius), but in the 2004 through 2009 Prius "2G's" the HV battery voltage is 201.6 volts DC [6 cells of 1.2 volts in each module (totaling 7.2 volts) times 28 modules = 201.6 volts] that gets converted by the inverter to 500 volts AC to run the electric drive motor. In the older 2001 through 2003 Prius "Classics", I think they used a 38 module battery to be converted to 375? volts AC for the electric motor. I believe somebody once said the battery cells in the "Classic" (or maybe in the older 1997-2000 Japan-only "Pioneer" Prius) looked just like the common "D" cell flashlight batteries.

    Ken (in Bolton,Ct)
     
  11. Bill Norton

    Bill Norton Senior Member

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    Yep, a 1st Gen Honda Insight battery pack was 120 'D' cell Ni-Mh cells.

    A Plug in Prius has a totally separate Li-on battery that is not recharged while driving, only plugged in.
    It gives you a whopping 13 miles of range,, but you have to stay under 62 MPH.

    Technology marches on....

    You should have bought a Volt, as should I.

    Have you heard about today's announcement about '14 Volt prices?!!?
     
  12. Kronos316

    Kronos316 Junior Member

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    No, what are the new prices of the 14 volt? Now I love my prius (very good quality too compared to others) However I just happen to go test drive a volt today out of curiosity. I will never get one due to the fact that the back seats would only be for a 4 yr old. No kidding!! Interior was no where as cool as the prius, Sound system was WAY less than it should be, being it was a Bose system on a 42 thousand dollar car. I very much like my JBL on the prius. The volt felt altogether more cramped and not as well refined or engineered. It did have good acceleration. If I replace the prius it will be for a Tesla, they start at 40k too! Anyone looked at those yet? OH MAN!!!

    Like I mentioned, one thing the volt dosent have on the prius is the fact I know it will go 300k miles.. Dont believe chevys there yet. Japan just has a few up on em still. Also there's no way two mountain bikes could ever fit in the back of the volt. Its like half the storage space.
     
  13. Bill Norton

    Bill Norton Senior Member

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    True, a Prius will go >300K miles. I have a friend with a Gen2, 350k miles, only one battery module replaced for $40 in parts from 'battery buddy' (100k miles ago), plus the labor to have an independent shop install it. That was the only unscheduled maintenance this car has had !!

    But how can you talk trash on the Volt when they have not been around that long? Depending on the owner, the engine hardly gets used. Someone has to be an early adapter.
    I'm willing to spend my dollars on an American High Tech Car.
    Remember what people said about "Hybrids" 13 years ago?
    And I thought the back seat was decent for an adult.
    I will live with 40 mpg on the highway if I only do that on road trips over 38 miles. Those 38 miles would cost me
    ~ $0.70 - $1.10. Of course where I live my car would now be coal and nuclear powered. But that is probably cleaner than gasoline. And my money will NOT be going to the middle-east oil kingdoms.
    And I already thought of the bike question. There are trailer hitch kits for the Volt. I'll use the receiver hitch bike rack I now use on my Prius! Trailer light wire kits too for when I tow my sailboat!
     
  14. GasperG

    GasperG Senior Member

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    From theoretical point you could charge it 20%-40% of the capacity depending how much can you discharge it when you get home. This gives us 0.26 - 0.52 kWh of extra energy, if you would charge it every day it would give you around 600 miles a year on the electricity, or around 70 € saving at high European petrol prices.

    If it would be a simple and safe mod for the battery, then there would be a benefit, but the risk for the battery is probably to high.
     
  15. Bill Norton

    Bill Norton Senior Member

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    "600 miles a year"?? from topping a stock Prius battery? You know EV only is < 25 mph.
    And how do you arrive home with a depleted battery in the first place? The Prius resists that .

    Gasper, your numbers are very 'questionable.
     
  16. David Beale

    David Beale Senior Member

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    From my research only, not personal experience, the PIP now has -one- traction battery, a LiIon unit that is very heavy. And powerful. It charges and uses it like a "normal" Prius, -AND- you can charge it by plugging in, either to 115V or 230V. It charges faster on 230V.

    It appears to be evolving rapidly. The 2010 setup is different from the current setup.

    Just for those who thought they knew what it was from the prototypes, which were different from the 2010 production, and those are different from the current production.
     
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  17. GasperG

    GasperG Senior Member

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    Ever heard of ICE and battery working together for lower consumption, EV Boost? I mean if you end the drive with 400 Wh less energy in the battery, this energy would deliver higher MPG, is that not so? To measure how much would that be I just gave a number in pure EV terms how else would you measure?
     
  18. Bill Norton

    Bill Norton Senior Member

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    Pure EV terms for a Prius is a very slow to accelerate <25 mph ordeal.
    I realize 400 Wh hour has an equivalent in MPG of gas when in the Prius but how could that be measured as MPG in a typical 40 minute commute? MPG always varies with each tank full.
    Good luck quantifying, maybe, 400 Wh a day added to a Prius that tries to keep its battery in a limited range.
    This charger will not be cheap. Topping the battery in a controlled manner might be difficult. Will you have thermal management?
    Is tapping into an old Prius really worth a very tiny amount of power that can be added to the battery?

    You sound like a techno geek like me.
    I'm bailing out and getting a Volt.
    I'll be getting a free 38 miles at work each day. Might cost $0.40, but I'm worth it, besides we're doing it for the children....

    Who wants to buy the second most expensive '10 Prius, next to a Prius V with ATP???
     
  19. Kronos316

    Kronos316 Junior Member

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    Ok I decided not to monkey with the prius battery. :/ If I need better mpg, ill convert it to calories per hr and take my bicycle..lol
     
  20. css28

    css28 Senior Member

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    The best way to have a full battery as you depart is to sit in the car for a minute after the engine starts before taking off.

    You can force the engine to start immediately by tapping the accelerator.
     
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