Is it true that we are funding both sides of the war?

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(burritos @ Jan 20 2007, 10:25 AM) [snapback]378228[/snapback]</div>

Not sure I'd totally agree with that, a lot of our imported oil comes from this hemisphere, i.e. Canada, Mexico etc. But we are awfully good friends with the Saudis, remind me again where the 911 hijackers came from and why that 911 report was censored?

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20030804/scheer20030729

 

We're supporting both sides of the war from a morale standpoint.

I support our troops and our president. Everything to help them succeed in my opinnion.

Then, there is the LEFT and our liberal media that give the terrorists every reason to hang in there and keep on fighting.

PC tends to lean to this liberal leftist support of the terrorists... or... shall I call them insurgents in order to make that go down a little easier here?

 

What do the terrorists want? Take the Terrorist Strategy 101 Quiz and find out.



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Jan 20 2007, 10:52 AM) [snapback]378237[/snapback]</div>

So what do you think the censored 911 report says?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daronspicher @ Jan 20 2007, 10:52 AM) [snapback]378237[/snapback]</div>

Yet more proof Neocons live on Bizarro World. Meanwhile, back here on Earth, it was Reagan and company who have money and arms to Saddam Hussein, Iran, and the Taliban.

It's the left who want our troops to stay alive - by coming home.

It's the right who wants them to die (by sending them there), then saying "you go to war with the tools you had, not the tools you wish you had", and then slash their veteran's benefits.

Again, I ask: Why do neocons hate this country so much?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Beryl Octet @ Jan 20 2007, 08:18 AM) [snapback]378242[/snapback]</div>

Excellent article!!!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(burritos @ Jan, 07:25 AM) [snapback]378228[/snapback]</div>

Which side is "our" side? I keep forgetting.
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Jan, 04:26 PM) [snapback]378412[/snapback]</div>

Wow - yeah, Excellent arcitle!!!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(burritos @ Jan 20 2007, 09:25 AM) [snapback]378228[/snapback]</div>

If that were the case, then i think the other side has been much better funded than our side in this war!

 

Are we funding both sides of the war? Yes we are - the Democrates are still getting matching funds in the bid for their election to higher offices :lol:

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Jan 22 2007, 11:51 AM) [snapback]378997[/snapback]</div>

Forgot that buying the NY Times, Time magazine, and the WaPo also probably helps fund both sides of the war too.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Beryl Octet @ Jan 20 2007, 11:18 AM) [snapback]378242[/snapback]</div>

Is that an oil rig in your pants, or are you just glad to see me?

Of course we support both sides of the war; that way we know we'll win!

Seriously, I think that, as a Nation, we're no longer capable of indidividual sacrifice for the common good. So why would we ever be called upon to sacrifice, even in a time of a National Emergency? 'Cause deep down they knew that we wouldn't.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Jan 23 2007, 04:15 PM) [snapback]379703[/snapback]</div>

I think I'm pretty cynical, but I think folks are willing to do what they can to help, be it writing checks and lining up to give blood after 911, or sending aid to New Orleans after Katrina, or whatever. If Bush had called for sacrifices to help achieve a goal of energy independence in early 2002, who would have opposed him?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Beryl Octet @ Jan 23 2007, 05:46 PM) [snapback]379721[/snapback]</div>

I don't agree with this either. I see a lot of individuals sacrificing with their personal time being volunteered on a regular basis and contributing monetarily to charitable causes. If you think about it, even the simple act of recycling can be a sacrifice (of time) as it's much easier to throw an item in a trash can than it is to rinse it and put it in a separate container. One also has to make a separate trip to the curb.

 

Well...

I suppose that (brace yourself for a rationalization now) being here in San Francisco might have had something to do with it, but my view of the response to 9/11 which I experienced in my day-to-day life definitely seemed to have its share of cynicism, especially as the days and weeks passed.

Honestly, I'm not totally comfortable dissecting this, but that's what I get for saying what I did. I don't want it to come off as cold or uncaring, and, really, I'm no expert.

Yes, it seemed like there was an flood of support immediately following 9/11, which I saw as more of an outpouring of (I don't know how else to put it) 'human caring' and, I guess, compassion for each other, on a human level. I mean, my God, cellphone calls from doomed airliners; I gasp even now thinking about the horror.

That's not what I'm talking about, though, that early, almost 'grass roots' response...

I'm talking about the message we received, which was, "America, open for business" and like that, and it struck me as odd that somehow it was patriotic to be a consumer.

I think it's fairly obvious that we're living beyond our means, financially and also in how we consume and pollute the world. I think that it's fairly obvious that consuming *less* would place us in a stronger position and allow more policy options.

I guess I'm just old fashioned, but there's something to be said for scrimping a little in times of emergency. It reminds us that this *is* an emergency (if it, indeed, is). It brings us together by reminding us that we're...well...in this together, and it also reinforces the idea that it's okay if things are scarce 'cause that reminds us they're not to be wasted.

What I'm saying is that if the Government had called upon us to make some sort of direct, LONG TERM personal sacrifce for the War Effort (say, until it's over), it probably wouldn't have happened.

Now, whether this is a reflection on us and where we are now as a People...or whether it's a reflection of the fact that a significant portion of the populace realizes that there are some gaps in the reasoning behind the War, I don't honestly know...

In any case, I ask some of the hawks here that very question, you know: "tell us how much you'd sign up to personally contribute to the War Effort, in thousands of dollars per year, with a minimum ten year committment..."

But it's usually all talk and no $. That's how it almost always is.

See, that's how you can tell if something is really worthwhile: by how much you sacrifice for it. The message we got from our elected officials was, "it's important...VITALLY important, not just to the Nation but to you, your family God, and Liberty, that we do this thing in Iraq...but, hey, don't worry, you won't feel a thing."

Why *shouldn't* we feel the tinge of sacrifice, at least a little? We're spending lots more money than if we weren't fighting...um I mean, nation building...over there...seems to me that a little economic sacrifice would remind us all of the greater ones happening elsewhere.

I think that the idea was to insulate us economically in the short term, ring up the bill, then let our kids clean up the mess. So, the messaging to us was: "keep doing what you're doing, it's patriotic."

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Jan 23 2007, 10:09 PM) [snapback]379841[/snapback]</div>

Yeah, that was bizarre. I kept expecting that we'd do something like announce a plan for energy independence or something, and we'd just get the "go shopping" message.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ Jan 23 2007, 10:09 PM) [snapback]379841[/snapback]</div>

As a New Yorker who lived through 9/11 personally I see it differently than you. Katrina saw the country come together to rebuild and take care of the living (what money was raised for the dead?) unlike 9/11 where the country came together to care for the dead and their families -- VERY NOBLE --. The causes were remarkable different and its interesting from my perspective that although what New Orleans suffered through was an act of God and 9/11 was an act of WAR there is such a difference in how people post occurance treat each one. The fact that acts of God do and will always happen - acts of War - the pre-meditated murder of THOUSANDS (they tried to kill TENS OF THOUSANDS OF NEW YORKERS AGAIN) do not happen often. The lack of unity in this country is disheartening. The fact that New York will be hit again is lost on no one in my neighborhood - the only question is with what.

I think you have an incorrect view of a nation at war - you refer to sacrifices we must make as individuals. I do not recall sacrifices being made during Vietnam or Korea. WWII is obviously a unique war in the scale of it. Short of world conflict individual citizens do not need to sacrifice. It is my hope that we all give to organizations that support the troops there and/or upon the return home. It is my hope that unlike Vietnam we do not SPIT on our soldiers or call them baby killers. The fact that some here harp on the inappropriate actions of a SMALL minority of our troops while ignoring the fact that 99.99% of them conduct themselves in an honorable manner during times of EXTREME stress is telling - to me distressing. Sometimes that sacrifice you call for should be an appropriate manner of dissent - one that does not place our troops in greater harm.

The need to return to "business as usual" after 9/11 is important. An analogy would be a near drowning situation with a child - do you keep them away from the water forever or do you get them back in as soon as possible. Human nature is dependant upon routines - it is the dissruption of those routines which the enemy seeks as much as the infliction of death and damage.

The future security of this nation is now in the hands of the Democrats. As a New Yorker - having lived through Hell once - after losing friends and neighbors and patients - I now hold my safety and the safety of my family and friends in their hands. If they decide to withdraw from this fight or alter the battle plan in any way shape or form so be it. The results of this alteration is now their responsiblity. I wonder what "sacrifices" they will be calling for in the war on terror - a war which i have witnessed first hand and fully understand will last generations. My life and the lives of my family are in their hands.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Jan 24 2007, 08:24 AM) [snapback]379986[/snapback]</div>

I consider folks being drafted and not coming back a big sacrifice. Your mileage may have varied.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Beryl Octet @ Jan 24 2007, 08:49 AM) [snapback]379990[/snapback]</div>

Drafted? Which war or country are you referring to?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Jan 24 2007, 10:54 AM) [snapback]380052[/snapback]</div>

Vietnam and Korea. You said you didn't think folks made sacrifices during those wars. I certainly think our Iraq adventure would be going differently in the public opinion if we didn't have a volunteer army (ignoring "stop loss" and some of the other tactics).