1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Is the Silverado a hybrid or not?

Discussion in 'Other Cars' started by bookrats, Jul 2, 2004.

  1. eg239

    eg239 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2004
    73
    0
    0
    Location:
    Manchester, NH
    I'd say technically, yes. Since it does draw some power from the electric motor, and since it does kill the engine at idle without having to restart it from the ignition, it fits a couple of hybrid requirements. Theoretically though I'd have to say no because... well the electric motor doesn't really do much now does it?
     
  2. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    12,755
    5,245
    57
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    The Silverado is most definitely *NOT* a hybrid!!!

    It is nothing but a glorified traditional vehicle.

    There is no blending of any kind.

    The electric-motor does not provide any propulsion help whatsoever.

    All GM did was increase the size of the already existing battery and already existing starter. That's it! The auto-stop/start feature is just a behavioral change, kind of like the fuel-cut feature already exisiting in many traditional vehicles.

    The system doesn't provide any benefit on the highway at all either. A zero percent improvement is hardly worthy of the "hybrid" label.
     
  3. Frank Hudon

    Frank Hudon Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2004
    4,147
    18
    0
    does anyone really need a 5.7 or 6 liter V8 powered generator? a 4horse power Honda generator would provide as much power as this thing would. After the word gets out that this thing drinks gas just to use your Skill saw I doubt they will even sell 100.
     
  4. bookrats

    bookrats New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2004
    2,843
    2
    0
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Exactly. The "duh" economics (i.e., buy a separate generator at <$$) make you wonder who the heck they're selling it to.
     
  5. Wolfman

    Wolfman New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2003
    1,233
    19
    0
    Location:
    Williston, ND.
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    The Silverado is just another example of how hopelessly clueless Garbage Motors really is.
     
  6. IsrAmeriPrius

    IsrAmeriPrius Progressive Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2004
    4,333
    7
    0
    Location:
    Southern California
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
  7. Tempus

    Tempus Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2004
    1,690
    6
    0
    Location:
    Washington DC
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    The silverado system is nothing like the Honda system.

    The electric motor is a glorified starter motor, and can be used as an electric generator, but it doesn't push the vehicle at all.
     
  8. IsrAmeriPrius

    IsrAmeriPrius Progressive Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2004
    4,333
    7
    0
    Location:
    Southern California
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    From the Auto123.com article:

     
  9. Bill60546

    Bill60546 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2004
    388
    4
    0
    Location:
    Chicago
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    GM

    I agree with Wolfman and John1701A.

    An increase in MPG from 15 to 17 is an improvement, lame, but atleast its an increase. If GM really had the technology, or management with true leadership skills, a Silverado that got 30MPG would be something to be proud of. But now, its a day late and a dollar short. Maybe GM should visit Toyota in IN to see how the new Tundra Hybrid is coming along?
     
  10. Tempus

    Tempus Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2004
    1,690
    6
    0
    Location:
    Washington DC
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    From the Canada article, and most others:

    Chevy's Silverado, though quite similar in construction to the Honda design, sends no power from its electric generator to the rear wheels. It does not aid acceleration, does not propel the truck from a stoplight and does not drive the rear wheels under light loads.

    What it does do is allow the gas engine to stop at lights and save the fuel normally wasted during idling. This is where most of the 15% fuel economy savings GM is claiming for the Silverado come from. The system also drives the power steering pump, which also reduces drag. There are a few other details, but that's basically it. Again, no motive force from the electric motor goes to the rear wheels.

    -----------

    It's 'similar' to the Honda system in that it has an electric motor that is bound to the ICE and cannot run independently.

    That's about it.

    If Honda's system is 'mild' then we need a new even wimpier word to describe the GM system. :)

    But it a big starter motor does not a hybrid make.
     
  11. KMO

    KMO Senior Member

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2004
    1,541
    425
    0
    Location:
    Finland
    Vehicle:
    2023 Prius Prime
    Model:
    N/A
    Re: GM

    But it's a bigger absolute saving in fuel than going from, say, 45 to 55.

    15000 miles @ 15 mpg = 1000 gallons
    15000 miles @ 17 mpg = 882 gallons: saving = 118 gallons = $236

    15000 miles @ 45 mpg = 333 gallons
    15000 miles @ 55 mpg = 273 gallons: saving = 60 gallons = $120
     
  12. bookrats

    bookrats New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2004
    2,843
    2
    0
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    The Silverado is a tepid
     
  13. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2004
    12,755
    5,245
    57
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    I think the proper term is: lowbrid
     
  14. bookrats

    bookrats New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2004
    2,843
    2
    0
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
     
  15. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    14,816
    2,498
    66
    Location:
    Far-North Chicagoland
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    I don't want to be the killjoy here, but let's try to look at this from another perspective.

    There is no chance in Hell that a heavy-duty, full-sized, pick-up driver would consider buying and driving a Prius, much less an Insight. But I have read (and written) comments to this board indicating that all those people driving huge gas-guzzling vehicles need to give them up.

    Ok, yes. The Silverado is not the Prius. But in my mind, it's a start.
    Without telling too much about the geography of where I was born and raised, I can vouch there there are still a lot of people with very narrow minds. They taught me through observation that you can not change engrained opinions overnight; the best you can do is introduce new thoughts as trickles and hope they accumulate. In fact, the harder you push the harder they pull away. The more you try to force something onto them, the less likely they are to welcome your advances. Anyone with pets knows and understands exactly what I mean. If not, you're welcome to come to my house and put my cat into her carrier (without falconry gloves).

    With enough suggesting and easing, you might be able to loosen a few mental restraints and broaden some horizons, but it all takes time. Sometimes, it takes so long that you have to wait for the racist parents to up and die before the kids can turn around. But in the grand scheme of things, 25-year generational change isn't all bad.

    Sure, this 'hybrid' Silverado does not solve all the environmental problems we face. But then again, compared to the vast ocean of fuel burning and pollution creating vehicles and operations in the world, this small community of Prius owners doesn't either. That's not the point though, is it? The point is to start a movement, a revolution. The point here is to create a mentality that is the complete opposite of what many of us were raised to believe.

    But if we can get these people accustomed to the thought of hybrid technology on any level, progress is achieved. If we can get the kids of Silverado buyers to understand that there's no stigma to owning a hybrid vehicle, then perhaps when they are old enough to buy their own trucks, they will not hesitate to buy a hybrid Highlander.

    Those are just my thoguhts for now. I'll blend back into the background again.
     
  16. bookrats

    bookrats New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2004
    2,843
    2
    0
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    Agreed. Basically, there are people with a legitimate need for a truck (or an SUV). My footnote would be that there are a lot of people driving them who don't need them... but let's table that.

    And my argument would be that the Silverado isn't the start -- the hybrid Highlander or Escapes are the beginning points. And I believe Toyota has an honest-to-goodness hybrid truck (Tundra? Tacoma? I'm not a truck person) in the works.

    The electric motor on the Silverado is, at best, an odd accessory. Sort of like a pacemaker driven by a hamster wheel.
     
  17. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    14,816
    2,498
    66
    Location:
    Far-North Chicagoland
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    It's just that I feel too much focus is being put exclusively on the technology of the vehicle. To that end, Bookrats, I have no option but to agree with you and everyone else. In fact, that remark of the hamster-wheel pacemaker was quite clever.

    The 'start' of which I speak is the mental one. The one in which the same guys who used to mock my Maxima calling it a "slant-eyed rice-burning war-losing Japmobile" are converted. My most humble apologies to all members of this board, but I'm using this quote (and yes, that's a quote) to make a point. These are the people I grew up with; these are the people who drive trucks with Confederate flags in their rear windows. These are the people who fight and reject new ideas not because they disagree with them but because they are new ideas.

    If we are to ever realize the dream in which everyone is driving hybrids or some form of high-efficiency vehicles, these are the people who will have to be converted. And in my humble opinion, it's not the product that's most important here, it's their belief that they are driving a hybrid.

    I had a Language and Linguististics instructor who once said that there are two types of Linguists: those who correct others' speech because they know what's right and those who let them speak unhindered because they know what's right.

    The point I was getting at in my previous post is that in this case, I think it might be best to let the Silverado owners drive their pick ups with the belief that they are driving a hybrid. Perhaps even welcome them into the fold and congratulate them on their purchase. The only other option is to not welcome them, which can only cause more harm than good. Unlike most of us, who are resolved to paying full price and sometimes more for a hybrid no matter how much crap the critics throw at us, I fear that if some of the heavy-duty GM truck drivers are scared away from the concept of hybrids, they may not come back. And that would be the greatest tragedy of all.
     
  18. 8AA

    8AA Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2004
    550
    62
    0
    Location:
    Maryland
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    I always thought that hybrid vehicles here propelled by a combination of an electric motor and an internal combustion engine. They could either be parallel (like the Honda) where both are connected to the drive train and share the work; series, where an internal combustion engine runs at a constant speed, turning a generator, which in turn charges the batteries and/or drives the wheels through an electric motor; or series-parallel (like the Prius) that sometimes operates as a parallel hybrid and sometimes as a series hybrid.

    If this is true, what kind of hybrid is the Silverado? My conventional car has batteries, an alternator, and a starter. If I start turning the car off at stoplights can I call it a hybrid? I'm all for having hybrid power plants available for SUVs and pickup trucks, however, the Silverado is by no stretch of the imagination a hybrid vehicle. It is equipped with a fuel saving system and the generator can be used to run small power tools.

    To quote a famous engineer "If you put wheels on your grandmother, she wouldn't be a wagon."
     
  19. Wolfman

    Wolfman New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2003
    1,233
    19
    0
    Location:
    Williston, ND.
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Really? Better check my sig.

    I love my Dodge truck. You will have to pry my cold dead hands from the steering wheel to take it from me. I have 104K miles on the odometer, and use it for all manner of hauling, towing, and in some cases recreation. I bought a diesel so that it would last a VERY long time, and get the best possible fuel mileage for the vehicle's size. 23mpg ain't bad for a 6600 pound full size 3/4 ton truck.

    You'll also have to shoot me first before you'll take my Prius. I love it just as much as the Dodge, and enjoy the 50 55 mpg that I've been able to receive from that car. As a commuter, and trip vehicle, it cannot be beat.

    Now comes my latest acquisition - a 2004 Goldwing. My first pleasure ride on it came back with 40.8 mpg - not bad at all for a 6 cylinder touring barge of a motorcycle that will hit 60 mph in 3.4 seconds. Performance, comfort, fun, AND fuel economy all in one package.