Is there any reason NOT to buy a Civic GX?

Well ... it's a sedan, and there's less established convenient CNG
infrastructure if you want to do road trips. But for the same
purposes as a BEV [local commutes/errands and company fleet use]
it certainly has its place..
.
_H*

 

If you can really limit yourself to 220 mile round-trip day trips, then go for it.

Otherwise, you had better do your homework on where exactly you can fill up. Unless you can refuel on the road, you're stuck with a very limited use vehicle. That's the biggest downside.

I drive one at work, where we have refueling facilities scattered around our work area. Civic GX's make nice fleet cars for outfits that can establish refueling facilities. Otherwise, they are impractical vehicles that very few people would want.

Harry

 

I don't like NG vehicles, as they are a bridge to getting off oil. In fact, widespread switching to NG, would push peak oil problems out minimally, but move forward peak NG problems quite dramatically. Electric vehicles make a lot more sense than electric home heating, if you catch my drift.

 

In Colorado, the state tax credit is $5860 and the federal one is $4000. So, take $9860 off the sticker.

Now that's a bargain.

Once issue with the filling station "phill" is that is costs $3500 new, and after pumping 2000 gallons (gges) it must be refurbished for $2000, so basically you pay $1 a gallon just to pump it in. I think it uses $.20 or so in electricity to pump it in as well.

So, do you really want a CNG car that gets about 30 MPG? Or how about a gas-electric hybrid that gets 45 MPG?

Tough choice.

Nate

 

Paying fuel taxes still may be required for use of CNG in a vehicle.

That road-use money is usually collected at the pump. But when filling at home, some states make you pay when you file income each year.

 

I clicked on a link about the GX that was here on PriusChat. After reading the posts there I didn't think much of it. Considering the cost of mantaining the compressor and changing those low and high pressure filters in the car, it did not seem worthwhile to me. I like the idea of Philling up at home in the garage, but after reading that the cost of home pump lease and maintenance fees was quite high, I didn't want to read anymore. The only consideration I would also make prior to a purchase of the GX, would be the fact that it still qualifies for that special carpool lane sticker that lets the driver run solo in the carpool lane(Kellyfornia). That sticker is worth a second look for some of you out there considering a GX buy.

Speaking of Kellyfornia, I recently saw Arnold Schwarzeneggfart on the Tonight Show w/ Jay Leno. Arnie spoke of the "Hydrogen Highway", a series of fueling stations from Alaska to San Diego for Hydrogen cars. I instantly thought of the electric vehicle charging stations with cobweb adapters here in So Cal.....cricket sounds inserted here.......

NG vehicles are good if your driving a forklift. The MPG's were not impressive either. Some people added little 5 gallon tanks in the trunks of their cars, but that only raised the average range on a fillup to about 400 plus miles - nowhere near what can be accomplished with the Prius. I would like to learn more about the GX as I would consider a purchase for commuting, but for now our money is on our Prius. Money well spent.

I also noticed that a lot of people had similar issues with quirky fillups and whatnot. Some posters wrote that the few filling stations there were, could not deliver a readout of pressure needed to fillup the GX. One guy wrote that the pump filled his tank, and charged him $0.00 dollars. Go figure.

 

After doing my homework we decided to buy a new Civic GX as opposed to a Prius for my commuter vehicle (got a Highlander Hybrid as well for long trips and for the wife & kids). We got a $4k federal tax credit and a $3k state tax credit, buying the price down to $17k (similar to a gasoline Civic LX)

We pay 74 cents per gallon (equivalent) here in Utah for CNG with pumps well positioned around the state. I passed on the Fuelmaker Phill in-garage unit. As previous posts have noted, the $$ simply does not pencil out. Instead I got a used Fuelmaker FM4 on eBay for $3,500 and had the local Fuelmaker dealer refurbish it and install for around $1,200 all-in. The nice thing about the FM4 and its newer cousin the FM2 is that the unit is infinitely refurbishable and pumps twice as fast (one gallon equiv. per hour), with the option of a second hose. It is amazing to drive out every morning with a full tank! We also get solo carpool access here in Utah too.

Hey, would anyone be interested in a Natural Gas Prius? They are starting to do these in Europe on a test basis. It would be sweet to fill a Prius for 74 cents a gallon!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(xpacific @ Aug 8 2007, 01:38 PM) [snapback]492542[/snapback]</div>

Honestly, I think I'd rather have a plug-in Prius instead.

I feel like, if too many people begin driving natural gas Prii, the cost to fill up the tank will rise far above the equivalent of $0.74/gallon you're paying currently.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(burritos @ Jun 4 2007, 11:06 AM) [snapback]455035[/snapback]</div>

Umm... Huh? Let's see, electrical outlets are on every modern building, while CNG stations are few and far between. In the county where I live, there is NO CNG distribution at all. Also, burning CNG produces CO2, while electricity CAN be produced sustainably. Note: I said CAN, not is currently, so don't run off on that tangent. IMHO, removing carbon from the vehicle is the first, cheapest step - then you move on to put up solar panels or some other "green" energy.

While I haven't test driven the GX, I did test drive the Civic hybrid, and I HATED the seats. They were horrible, at least to my spine.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(burritos @ Jun 4 2007, 10:36 AM) [snapback]455012[/snapback]</div>

Real life story from a guy who bemoans his EV1 loss, and who could have bought ANY other replacement vehicle.

I bought a $42,000 electric vehicle with 100 miles range. I could have bought the Civic CNG for $18,000. New. I bought the EV. Why? Because my EV doesn't use fossil fuel. I can fuel my car at home with energy that I make on my roof. And finally, I bought the EV because of convenience. Everybody I know has electricity. The CNG stations are not only few and far betwee, but they all seem to require a different card to use. You don't just swipe your credit card - you must first apply for every card from every station you wish to fill from. One final detraction from the CNG cars is that the tanks are HUGE, and in the case of the Civic - the tank takes up 2/3 of the trunk. so my first choice was an EV. I also needed a long-range car, and since the Civic has almost no trunk, and a limited range with few stations to fill up, Prius was my best choice for the secondary, long-range car.

CNG cars are excellent. I'd buy one if I had no EV choice. But I'd still need a long-range car, unfortunately.

Huh? We have NO better way to transport energy than in the form of electricity. Instantaneous transmission, and low loss. No pollution created in the transportation. Plus, electricity can be created from damn-near ANYTHING. Even NG! Whereas NG can be created from exactly one thing. And we are running out of it.

Right, but it is low pressure, and as Nate pointed out, you use a bunch of electricity just compressing the stuff. Would be far better to use that electricity just to charge an EV to begin with!

CNG is a clean fuel. It is, however, a fossil fuel that we're importing more and more of. Like gasoline, it is far too valuable to just be burning up for our transportation needs.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(burritos @ Jun 4 2007, 11:06 AM) [snapback]455035[/snapback]</div>

NO. And NO.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(john1701a @ Jun 4 2007, 05:04 PM) [snapback]455261[/snapback]</div>

Thats very true the road tax that is paid when you purchase gas will have to come from somewhere.

Here in Missouri, I have to buy a Special fuel decal 75.00 per year in lieu of the gas tax paid at the pump to operate my EV on the streets. I also found out they have Revenue Investigators out there checking for decals once you register your car as electric only.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(priussoris @ Aug 8 2007, 05:05 PM) [snapback]492724[/snapback]</div>

That's the first I've heard of an "opt out" tax. Has me wondering why gas guzzlers don't also have to purchase a "Special Polluter" decal for, say, $5,000/year. Afterall, they're using up resources that aren't paid for with the fuel tax.

 

For what its worth, NZ has considerable experience when it comes to running cars on LPG & CNG. In 1978 when OPEC announced a 15% rise in oil prices and the revolution in Iran had the effect of removing 5.7 million barrels of oil per day from world supply, NZ found itself last in line in a feeding frenzy for oil, namely we found ourselves with a shortfall of 18% of our crude oil needs.

Weekend sales of petrol were banned. Carless days were introduced based on your registration number.

The government incentivised conversions of cars to CNG and LPG with zero interest loans to car owners and subsidised the construction of retail facilities at nearly every petrol station. Together LPG and CNG use replaced 230,000 tonnes of petrol annually. Automotive LPG sales peaked in 1987 at approx 75,000 tonnes used by approx 50,000 vehicles (CNG use was even higher). In 1986 the NZ government withdrew all conversion incentives.

We still have the infrastructure, we even still have a lot of the old cars, and conversions are relatively easy and cheap to obtain. And oh yes, I'd still rather drive a Prius.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(samiam @ Aug 8 2007, 11:06 PM) [snapback]492833[/snapback]</div>

Just look at the degree of progress that can be recognized in a little less than a decade when a government determines such a necessity. When is it our turn?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(SSimon @ Aug 9 2007, 10:48 AM) [snapback]492999[/snapback]</div>

True but notice they also abandoned the program in 1986 when gasoline dropped dramatically in price. This was also about the same time that the US abandoned support for CAFE and all of our alternative energy programs as well. We can never seem to offer incentives for anything non-fossil for more than 2 to 4 years at a time, not nearly long enough to build an industry.

I remember my father buying a solar collector for our house in the early 80's because the federal government was offering incentives that almost paid for it. It was tiny (maybe 2 meters squared) and never worked very well. He removed it when we replaced the roof about 10 year later.

 

I second the CO2 issue...
Burning anything to move a vehicle creates CO2.
NG is a fossil fuel.
I would LOVE an EV like Darrell's.... along with his solar charger. Okay, so where I live, I could use it 3 months of the year, but I would love an EV... it isn't feasible right now for our family, or my commute.
What works is a Prius, with its super-low emissions, until "someday" we can all drive EVs that are charged by solar, tidal, wind, and other non-polluting sources of power.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jhinton @ Aug 9 2007, 01:47 PM) [snapback]493183[/snapback]</div>

EXACTLY the message that I take home from this. We're REACTIVE, not PROactive... and that's gonna hurt.

Six years ago when I started driving EVs, and gas was "cheap" by today's standards, I was the neighborhood nut case. Today, with gas often over $3.20/gallon, I'm suddenly the smartest guy on the block. Yet nothing has changed except the reaction to the price of gas. Amazing.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jhinton @ Aug 9 2007, 03:47 PM) [snapback]493183[/snapback]</div>

I didn't couple the cessation of incentives with a fuel price drop. I coupled it with the success of the program and that these vehicles were so main stream that these incentives were no longer needed. I'm sure your take is the accurate scenario.