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Is this a repairable problem?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by BeowulfSchmidt, May 5, 2013.

  1. BeowulfSchmidt

    BeowulfSchmidt Junior Member

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    I tried searching for the codes I got from my MFD using some instructions elsewhere, but either my search fu leaves a great deal to be desired, or they just aren't there. If someone could point me at either a thread that deals with my codes, or a place where I can look them up myself, before towing the 50 miles to the only dealer I trust, I'd appreciate it.

    I have a 2006 Prius with almost 202K miles on it. All maintenance intervals performed by the dealer from whom I bought it. This morning, the Hybrid System Warning light came on, along with the big big red triangle and the engine light. The brake light also came on, but that one has since gone off. Using some instructions I found, I wrote down the "LAN Monitor EMV" codes. The EMV was the only one that was red; the Audio and G/W lights were green.

    Here are the codes I have:

    Code Sub-Code
    01-DC 190-1B-1
    01-D8 190-18-1
    01-D5 190-52-A
    01-DB 190-B2-F
    01-DB 110-AA-8

    Am I looking at a new hybrid battery, or just the new regular battery, or what?

    Thanks,
    Brad
     
  2. nh7o

    nh7o Off grid since 1980

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    The codes from the MFD don't tell you anything, unfortunately. (It would be great if the car had a code reader built in!) You will need to have the codes read by Toyota, or get a Prius compatible code reader like the mini VCI on eBay. Also, make sure you 12V battery is good. With that mileage, the battery could very well be at fault, but codes are needed to be sure.
     
  3. BeowulfSchmidt

    BeowulfSchmidt Junior Member

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    Thanks for the response.

    According to the same MFD hocus-pocus that got me these codes (if I understand the readout correctly), the 12v battery is at 12.2 when the power is mostly off (i.e. I press the power button once with my foot off the brake), and 11.9 when I hit the power button again, with my foot off the brake. That appears nominal, is it?
     
  4. nh7o

    nh7o Off grid since 1980

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    What is the voltage when the car is in Ready?

    That is a bit low so far, but is not definitely the cause of your problem. You could replace the battery now, knowing that it won't be long before it fails.

    What happens is a large pulse of current is drawn at start up, and if the voltage dips too low, some of the ECU's can boot up improperly, and that can generate random codes. If you have a charger, give it a boost.
     
  5. BeowulfSchmidt

    BeowulfSchmidt Junior Member

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    Unfortunately, I don't have a charger. When I press the brake and press power again, the car turns on, the voltage briefly dips to 11.7, then jumps to 14.2 and drops to 14.1.
     
  6. BeowulfSchmidt

    BeowulfSchmidt Junior Member

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    Unfortunately, the dealer is telling me that it will require the replacement of the Hybrid Battery Pack, to the tune of $4,429.36.

    Yikes! I was under the impression the batteries were coming *down*. Does this indicate something more than just the battery, or are they attempting to screw me over? This is the dealership from which I bought the car, and they've never given me any kind of oversell before. Not that there can't be a first time, but it would surprise me in this case. It does make me wonder, though.
     
  7. RAL

    RAL Member

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  8. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Look at the battery consumption meter on the mfd for erratic charging behavior. If it goes from a full charge to a low charge very quickly back and forth the Hybrid battery is toast.

    Btw, do you see alot of hills in your daily travel and has the Inverter Coolant ever been changed?
     
  9. nh7o

    nh7o Off grid since 1980

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  10. BeowulfSchmidt

    BeowulfSchmidt Junior Member

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    RAL: Thanks for the links.

    edthefox5: I didn't notice anything hinky about the charging. It seemed pretty steady when I took a chance and drove it to the dealer. I was actually watching it. As for hills, what do you call a "hill"? From my perspective, no, my commute is pretty flat.

    nh7o: Scottsburg, IN is about a half-hour to 45 minutes up 65. I may have to give them a call. According to their website, they have 13 rebuilt batteries in service, and only one has failed. Are there any stats on lifetimes for rebuilt packs? 1,100 installed doesn't seem bad, but it's only warranted for 6 months.
     
  11. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    Steady battery meter it may not be the Hybrid battery. You said all maintenance was done by dealer but did they do the Inverter Coolant pump recall on the car.

    We must see all the codes it throws. If the dealer looked at it they noted the codes on the service receipt. It may be found on the Toyota.com/owners site if you have not joined that site I suggest you do it's free and see if the codes are listed there.
    Everything the dealer has done to my car has been posted on that site including all work I have performed myself and logged there.

    List the codes here verbatim please. Its all guessing till we see them.
     
  12. BeowulfSchmidt

    BeowulfSchmidt Junior Member

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    The dealer hasn't posted them to that site yet, or at least they aren't showing up. I searched the history for "Inverter" and "recall" and didn't find anything. Not sure that's definitive, as I know they've done at least one recall repair on it. I will be going down there tomorrow, so I'll at least be able to ask them in person if he doesn't answer my email.
     
  13. edthefox5

    edthefox5 Senior Member

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    They will have the codes reported listed on there system on the service ticket. At least they should most dealers including mine do.

    I wouldn't spend any money till we see the codes.
     
  14. Baldbubba

    Baldbubba Member

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    get in touch with steve at http://www.autobeyours he will take care of you he can Install rebuilt batteries for thousand dollars installed If that is what you need he is very honest and will take care of you. Is 30 minutes north of Louisville. He will fix your problem at a very reasonable price No matter what the problem
     
  15. BeowulfSchmidt

    BeowulfSchmidt Junior Member

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    The codes he pulled from the car are P3000, P0A80 and P3018.
     
  16. nh7o

    nh7o Off grid since 1980

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    Those DTC look like a sure thing. One of the battery modules (no. 8) has failed. Some here might try to rebuild the pack DIY with a used module, but at 200K miles, I think you are better off replacing.
     
  17. BeowulfSchmidt

    BeowulfSchmidt Junior Member

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    OK, so if I go with a rebuilt battery, what's the next thing that "scheduled" to go wrong? :)

    I'm OK with replacing the battery, given the proximity of the autobeyours guy, but I don't really want to spend $1,100 and then have to spend another huge amount. :)
     
  18. RAL

    RAL Member

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    If she seems to be in good shape otherwise I would not have any problem putting $1100 in a 200000 mile Toyota that gets 45/50 mpg. You could always trade it in on a new/newer Prius and pick up a $300 to $500 note..............me I'd roll with your used rig. Even if you only got another year out of it that less than $100 a month plus the outstanding MPG......you have to judge the overall condition of the rig, you have to make that call.

    RAL
     
  19. BeowulfSchmidt

    BeowulfSchmidt Junior Member

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    I really appreciate the help you guys have provided in this thread.

    "Seems" is the operative word there. :) Like I said, all the maintenance has been with the dealer, and unless they've overlooked something, I've made every repair they ever recommended. Sadly, that does not, of course, mean that something else isn't on the brink of failure.

    Well, that was another question I had. I ended up driving it to the dealer to have it evaluated, and it seemed to work fine all the way there (except that the cruise control didn't work). The mileage meter showed normal, the MFD showed normal charging/draining and electric/ICE motor usage and switching.

    nh7o, you noted that one of the battery modules has failed. Does the computer stop at the first failure in that case, or would it report all of the ones that met the "failure" criteria? And what is that criteria for being reported? Is it complete failure of the module, or some percentage of some charge/recovery statistic, or what?

    If I could run it, albeit at some lower level of efficiency for a period of time until I can get a new battery, that would be acceptable.

    Thanks again, everyone.
     
  20. jdenenberg

    jdenenberg EE Professor

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    There are two predominant failure modes in Prius modules:
    1. One of the 6 cells in one module gets a reverse bias and dies so the module voltage reads about 1.2v less than the others. This is the case where it is practical to replace one or two modules and rebalance the others to get your Prius back on the road.
    2. Degraded capacity or increased series resistance which is usually due to overheating and impacts a number of modules at the same time. In this case it is best to replace all of the modules or get a new/rebuilt HV battery.
    The Battery ECU is inside of the HV battery unit and seldom fails (dealers often unnecessarily charge for a new one). It reads and can report module pair voltages and series resistance if you have a Prius capable ODBII reader. It alarms and sets codes when a module pair voltage differs significantly (more than 0.3 volts) from the other module pairs.

    A Prius will run, albeit in a "safe" mode (no AC, no cruise control, and little torque support from the MGs for acceleration), until the HV battery degrades to the point where it can't spin up the engine (usually a few weeks after symptoms are detected).

    JeffD
     
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