Is Toyota Crippling The Prius' Power On Purpose?

Discussion in 'Gen 4 Prius Main Forum' started by eigenmeat, Mar 18, 2019.

  1. eigenmeat

    eigenmeat New Member

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    2019 Prius vs 2019 Camry Hybrid LE
    Engine: 1.8L vs 2.0L
    MPG: 54/50 vs 51/53
    Weight: ~3100lb vs ~3450lb
    Power: 121HP vs 208HP
    0-60: ~10sec vs ~6sec

    The current gen Camry hybrid managed similar efficiency while having whopping 40%(!) more power and ~40% faster(!) 0-60 times. The Camry hybrid can probably manage even higher MPG if it has the Prius' aerodynamic body.

    My rant:
    1. That 0.2L extra engine displacement on the Camry somehow manages 40% power while retaining similar efficiency. The The Prius' power train should at least capable of ~160-170HP. I have feeling that Toyota is purposely keeping the Prius slow for market segmentation purpose.
    2. I would love for a fast Prius. Toyota, please put the Camry hybrid power train in a Prius type lift/hatch back. It would be fun to drive while still being extremely efficient and practical. The sedan form factor is turning me and lots of people away.
     
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  2. kevinwhite

    kevinwhite Active Member

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    I'm not sure why you think the Camry Hybrid engine 2.0 L it is in fact 2.5L.

    2019 Toyota Camry MPG & Price

    This is ~40% more than the Prius 1.8L engine so 40% more power is not exactly a surprise.

    I admit it does have a very impressive fuel consumption.

    The same engine/transmission is used with an SUV body in the RAV 4 Hybrid.

    Toyota did do some engine improvements for the 2019 Camry Hybrid that don't seem to be in the RAV 4 Hybrid yet though.

    kevin
     
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  3. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    Yes, definitely not a 2.0 engine - a 2.5.

    And Camry is a large sedan, not a medium hatch - which is far more practical. For one thing, the larger Camry won't fit in my garage (well, it will, but I can't get out) (Camry 4905mm long, PRIUS 4575mm long - Camry 80mm wider).

    As for economy, there is no comparison - in the real world, I've read Camry uses ~6.5 l/100km - my PRIUS has averaged only ~4.1l/100km over 41,000km.

    PRIUS wasn't designed as a sports car - that's what the Supra is about. OK - maybe an 86.
    upload_2019-3-19_12-39-28.png
     
  4. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i think camry rating is pretty much real world, while prius can do so much better. they probably needed to bump the mpg rating to compete with other sedans.
     
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  5. BruceInOKC

    BruceInOKC Member

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    Yes, I get what you want from Toyota, but it's a tough sell. The Prius hatchback is targeting hypermilers. The Camry Hybrid is targeting people who want better mileage from a sedan. In order to fit the larger engine into a Prius hatchback, it would require an extensive redesign at a time when US Prius sales are floundering.
     
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  6. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sidewalk Supervisor

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    Geez Alan, winge winge... :ROFLMAO:
     
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  7. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    Home market, PRIUS is still doing all right:
    upload_2019-3-31_14-10-35.png

    Bearing in mind that model sales decline after initial release.
     
  8. ekpolk

    ekpolk What could possibly...

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    Well, that's only partly true. Don't forget what the Prius actually is. For starters, though it has "shrunk" slightly since the Gen-2, it's still a decent size car. For interior space, it sits pretty much dead center between the Corolla and the Camry. The passenger volume numbers are 88/93/99; Corolla, Prius and Camry. And of the three, it's the only one with the hatchback configuration, which while helping with the aerodynamics, also gives it cargo handling flexibility that neither the Corolla nor the Camry can match. Especially so with the departure of the US "Corolla Wagon" (a/k/a or f/k/a the Matrix).

    Nobody can deny with a straight face that Toyota has pitched this car, in part, to hypermilers. My point though is that there are other intended "targets" too, guys like me who love the mpgs, but also really need the logistical capabilities too. The Corolla hybrid will be able to hypermile just as well as a Prius, but it's a no-go for me (given my present needs) because it simply can't handle the "stuff" I need to put into it. It's also got that butt-ugly gaping catfish front end. . . :sick:
     
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  9. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    Putting a bigger motor for a faster PRIUS would make a big impact on fuel use. And, I wouldn't have bought one. It's got plenty of get-up-and-go as it is.

    Putting a bigger motor would have required a bigger body, as I doubt that the 2.5 motor would physically fit. And a heavier suspension to cope with the greater engine weight. And might need a bigger hybrid battery - though I can't find the capacity of the Camry/RAV4 battery compared with PRIUS.

    Additionally, I'm not sure that the P610 transaxle will cope with the torque of the Camry motor.

    Essentially - you're building a different, heavier car.
     
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  10. ekpolk

    ekpolk What could possibly...

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    I guess I should clarify. I'm NOT at all advocating the idea of Toyota attempting to shoehorn the 2.5 into the Prius. Rather, I think that the Prius is a useful, viable vehicle for reasons beyond the novel and super-efficient propulsion system which it introduced to the world. I don't own and drive one solely because it's a high mileage hybrid. That's one virtue. If it were the only, I'd probably own on of those strange original Honda Insights. No, I also appreciate its utility, comfort and flexibility.
     
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  11. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    For this chassis, it’ll be the 2.0 litre hybrid found in the European Corolla Hybrid. 178hp net system power.
     
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  12. BruceInOKC

    BruceInOKC Member

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    Yes, hatchbacks do have significant advantages in interior space, which I also appreciate. Try stuffing a 55" TV (new in the box) into a small sedan. Unfortunately, most Americans still associate hatchbacks with station wagons.
     
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  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    the only negative to me is the noise factor and trunk security
     
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  14. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    Maybe this (from WIKIPEDIA) might satisfy?

    Motorsports[edit]
    [​IMG]
    Apr Toyota Prius apr GT at Sportsland SUGO
    A racing version of the Prius was unveiled by Toyota in 2013. This racing Prius replaces the 1.8-litre Atkinson-cycle engine with a 3.4-litre V8 RV8KLM engine which is mid-mounted in the car. The hybrid drive train of the car's production Hybrid Synergy Drive is retained but with a larger lithium ion battery.[215] The RV8KLM is in fact the same engine featured in multiple Le Mans Prototypes such as the Lola B12/60 and Rebellion R-One. The car took class pole position[216] and finished sixth at the 2012 Fuji GT 500km.

    Trouble is - I wouldn't be able to pick up the grandchildren with a mid-mounted engine.
     
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  15. ekpolk

    ekpolk What could possibly...

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    A V-8 Prius -- sounds like fun! And it actually already exists in street legal form. It's disguised however, carefully wrapped in Lexus LS sedan outer panels! ;) It even has a back seat (with leather standard). Alas, it's a bit out of my price range. . .
     
  16. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    I guess a V8 anything will work.

    Way back when I had a VOLVO 244 - I knew of quite a few which had V8 conversions - Chev mostly, or FORD. Real stealth machine. Like this 5 litre:
    upload_2019-4-1_23-31-51.png
     
  17. ekpolk

    ekpolk What could possibly...

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    Mmmmm, I'm thinking I really like my little ole 4-cyl Prius. . .

    As for the monster Volvo, I wonder -- if you drop a V-8 into one of those, does the radio automatically blank out NPR?
     
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  18. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    Back then, there was a tamer Prius GT concept. (Ok there's still no backseat but arguably if you had the performance upgrades sans rollcage, it would work.

    Prius GT Concept (2004) - Toyota UK Media Site

    [​IMG]
     
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  19. alanclarkeau

    alanclarkeau Senior Member

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    Not sure - we don't get NPR here - (online only). But it should get the normal radio stations.
     
  20. dbf

    dbf Junior Member

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    Lol! I'm sure he meant it as a not-so-subtle (at least in this country) political remark!
     
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