Is Toyota subsidizing maintenance on the Prius?

I never went in for the free alignment during the first year, because I never noticed a need. MAYBE the outer-edge tire wear I see now could have been prevented, but it's a little late for that now.

Other than that, one recall done with the brake switch one waiting until the part comes in. Nothing other people haven't reported comes to mind, but one can't-change-volume incident here and one can't-start-car-maybe-pedal-wasn't-worked-right incident there isn't something I would go to the dealer on demanding answers. I'm a wait-until-towed-in person, normally...

 

I've had the MFD (the touchscreen) replaced under warranty. That's it. Would have cost $400 exchange if not under warranty. That's per my dealer. Other maintenance issues are not even applicable to the Prius: no 'transmission' to burn out; brakes last longer due to regenerative braking (electric motor slows you); high reliability in electric motors (only one spinning/moving part). Not to mention the overal quality of a Toyota. This is proven technology (7 plus years in the making). I would buy another in a heartbeat. The 'hybrid' warranty of 8 years/100,000 miles tells me Toyota is pretty proud of the technology. I know I am! Love my
Prius.

 

In an era of increasing gas prices and more restrictive pollution standards, a car with the advantages of a hybrid is a key selling point. Don't forget that GM has no equivalent vehicle (and is likely to be five years away from one), and that Toyota is gunning for #1. It looks to be a key selling point for their entire line soon.

Then consider that the popular 2nd gen Prius will be running out of warrantee in about five years, too, and you can figure the LAST thing Toyota wants is to have this key technology get a bad rep just when they want to cash in on their market advantage.

I bet the 100K (150K Cali) warrantee is conservative. The 1st gen hasn't had more than a handful (if any) battery replacements needed for failures.

This situation, plus the above mentioned tranny and brake reliability, make me confident that my usual 200K-plus miles will be trouble free.

Even I hedged with the extended warrantee, though!

 

On thing to remember when looking at boards like this is that people with problems post and though you see a lot of "I LOVE THIS CAR" it does not reflect the total numbers of people with out problems. CR says that the Prius is a reliable car based on at least some data.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hdrygas\";p=\"70314)</div>

They based their reliability on 1640 responses from Prius owners. I believe they reported 4 problems per 100 cars which is an extremely low number, one of the best.

 

and I bet some of them were stuff like the dirty O2 at about 500 miles.

 

ONe thing to keep in mind is that, in general, an unhappy customer is a LOT louder than a happy customer. And either the majority of Prius owners are the exception to the rule, or there is nothing really to complain about so far.

I have been lurking here since the beginning of the year and it is amazing the lack of complaints, There was one thread (to lazy to look it up) that was specifically asking for complaints. and after a couple of minor issues it degenerated into a discussion regarding the lack of or validity of rpm, temp and other idoit gauges.

As for me it took one afternoon listening to a friend who builds race car engines (and holds several patents) expound about how wonderful his 6 month old prius is. When asked about his complaints "the control stalks on the steering wheel are to close for my liking and the traction control is a bit to sensitive." SOLD!!!! I placed my order two weeks later. (late october)

Just got the VIN# for my seaside blue pkg 5 (AI) this afternoon. Taking delivery on the 14th!!!!!

Take care

 

Ok, let's compare the warranty and non-warranty history of my 2004 Prius to my last vehicle, a 2000 GMC Sierra 1500 4x4. I'll leave out the nit-picky stuff like ergonomics and feature list, as this is something you should be able to discriminate while test driving or shopping.

2004 Prius:

-It seemed to wander a lot at Trans Canada speeds. Dealer gave free alignment that helped a lot, but didn't cure it. May just be design of front spoiler (Search for threads on folks who have made different spoilers and reported they cured the wander).

-Headlights misaimed: way too high. Dealer sent me to an Autopac Collision Centre (Note Metric spelling of "center") equipped with a sophisticated digital headlight aiming machine. My headlights are now the best I have ever owned, see no need for HID conversion.

-It conked on me the beginning of November and needed to be towed. There is a TSB out for this, the computer needs new software. Has been fine ever since.

If I had to pay for the wheel alignment and headlight aim, maybe $120? If a PCM conks in any car off warranty, the cost could hit $1,500 or much higher. How often does the PCM on a car conk? Ok, maybe if you jump start it wrong.

2000 GMC Sierra, special ordered:

-One week old and less than 150km, puddle of gear oil on the garage floor. Pinion seal bad from factory, local GMC dealer replaced.

-One month old, less than 800km, parking brake pedal return spring broke. Had to manually reach down to pull the pedal up. Had to wait almost a month for a replacement parking brake pedal assembly. Realized too late I had a putrid POS on my hands.

-Also noticed headlights misaimed: badly crosseyed. Sent to Autopac Collision Center and put on sophisticated digital headlight aiming machine. Technician commented the headlights had the worst beam pattern he had ever seen. I concur.

-Two months old, less than 1,400km on it, engine began to idle so roughly it felt like a solid lifter cam in a hotrod. No Check Engine either. Dealer had TSB to reflash PCM. Never did have what I would call a smooth idle.

-One year old, less than 15,000km on it, recall for airbag logic. Reflashed PCM. Autotrac transfer case started acting up too, random and no trouble codes. Adjusted rear "drum in hat" parking brake, very weak and won't hold.

-14 months old, less than 16,000km on it, "Service 4WD." Bad front reluctor speed sensor. Replaced. Also adjusted (Again) rear "drum in hat" parking brake as not holding.

-18 months old, less than 22,000km on it. Ditto. Also had to adjust rear "drum in hat" parking brake, not holding (Again).

-Two years old, 35,645km on it, "Service 4WD." Bad rear reluctor speed sensor replaced. Recall campaign for rear brake line interference. Created annoying rattle over bumps. Also - surprise surprise - adjusted the rear parking brake.

-Three years old, 58,980km on it, "Service 4WD," bad front reluctor speed sensor. Adjusted (Yawn) the rear "drum in hat" parking brake. This is getting old ... and just going off warranty

-Four years old, 67,000km on it: "Service 4WD" again, bad switch selector logic board, $175. Rear wheel axle seals leaking, rear "drum in hat" parking brakes worn out and oil soaked: $490.

-Four years old, 67,001km on it: For Sale ad placed in paper ...

So despite the fact my 2000 GMC Sierra had *much* better seats in it (I had the top-of-the-line SLT with leather bucket seats), everything else about it was *much* crappier and expensive to repair. Off warranty I'd have to guess $1,500?

I think Toyota does have a lot of confidence in their HSD or they wouldn't have such a long warranty on it. More than likely, a really pricey component will fail while new or under warranty.

As far as "subsidizing" maintenance, I compare the "normal" scheduled maintenance of my GMC to the Prius and they compare well.

About the only catch is if you own a domestic or foreign brand that has a timing belt, that can get pricey. Prius has a "lifetime" timing chain.

 

Dupreesdiamonds is right. I have only been lurking here for about 2 mo and after coming from my F250 forums there are a lot more complaints (then again there are more F250 trucks around).

Ford Ranger - I had it for 2 years and no repairs needed
F150 - In 3 years only had to take it in for a faulty windshield wiper motor.
F250 - 6 months no repairs needed. but I did get a recall notice 5 days after it was stolen. hehehe I hope it blows up on them.

My Prius is 1 mo old with 700 miles and so far working great. I did not take it in for the free alignment either as it does not seem to need it. Assuming the steering wheel test is an effective gauge (vehicle does not pull to the side). Not sure if the fly by wire will correct for this.

 

Well the car is not steering by wire. Just the gas pedal and shift. I've had mine since Nov. and nary a problem. Even with all the cold and snow.

 

i have had my Prius for over 10,000 miles and have done nothing to it other than 2 oil changes. i did have a nail in one tire but the flat was fixed free of charge at Les Schwabs.

as far as owner satisfaction, this car is so much better than any car ive ever had that i now cant imagine driving another kind of car.

its easy to see why the Prius was rated #1 in a consumers report survey when asked if people would buy their car again if given the choice

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(drash\";p=\"70678)</div>

Well, yes and no. You do have direct connection between and and wheels, but a torque sensor detects the slightest intent to turn the wheel, and drives an electric motor to help turn it for you. VSC will fight you though, if it finds you are steering incorrectly during a skid. Also Japan took advantage of the electric power steering for their auto-park. The car can steer itself.

 

I don't have miles for mine, so this will have to do.

2003 Saturn VUE AWD with the CVT transmission bought new. A couple of weeks into ownership, a slight shudder and rumbling noise started to make itself known between 50 and 65 mph on slight uphill grades. At about the same time, the vehicle started making a "slurping" noise going around corners at low speeds. Car taken back to dealership for inspection. New transmission installed with a bit over 6K on the odometer.

Slurping noise replaced by ear splitting whine upon acceleration and slowing. Rumbling and shutter still remain. Car goes back to shop. Techs replace shifter cable which now flops around, rubbing halfshafts. Ear splitting whine gone, other problems remain.

Two months later, recall letter is received to have wiring harness to transmission reworked, and some other part that I cannot recall replaced in transmission to correct overpressure and subsequent filter imploting.

Rumbling noise and shudder still present, and techs still cannot solve this problem.

Two months later, TSB is issued to address mass conumer complaints of shudder and rumbling. TSB taken to dealership where they are dumbfounded as to source, but follow procedure. Uphill ascents are now quiet for the first time in 6 months.

Two days later, fuel pump begins shrieking loudly in tank, causing even louder cussing spree in hardware parking lot. :cussing: Problem immediately dissapears, never to resurface again.

This begins a nice period of reliable operation from vehicle untill following February ice storm.

Headed to bank for appointment to close loan to begin the long awaited rennovations to house, when vehicle is caught in rut, and slowly deposited on side of road. Car stops so softly, that it barely even rocks, and drives right back onto road, now vibrating violently. After ice storm aftermath melts away, vibrations only reduce somewhat in intensity.

Back in shop, techs replace both front struts. Vibration reduced, but not gone.

Rear struts are replaced. Vibration reduced, but not gone.

Driveshaft from transmission to rear diff replaced. Vibration reduced still more, but not gone. By chance I find super deal on OEM alloys on Ebay, and replace OEM steel wheels - vibration finally gone. Total time spent fighting with this problem - 3 months.

Car gives three months of peace and quiet untill, new rumble and shudder develops while slowing between 40 and 30 mph.

Vehicle was then traded off with only 30k on the odometer, for my 2003 Prius.

Toyota Prius:

Bought new November 2003 - last "classic" to be found in 5 state region.

One month into ownership, I attempt to swerve to miss a rather large dead animal on the road at night, and failed to miss it. Car pulls hard right now. Taken to dealership, no damage found, and car realigned. Missing trim clips for battery and cruise control are also installed.

7500 miles, first service interval performed by dealership. Charged for oil change, and I didn't have time to argue.

15,000 miles, second service interval performed by dealership. This time they know what I'm talking about, and do not charge for service.

22.500 miles, third service interval perfromed by dealership. No charge.

30,000 miles, fourth service interval performed by dealership. Hybrid battery recall also performed during service. Given rental by dealership for having to leave car overnight.

34,000 miles, crappy OEM tires replaced before road trip.

37,500 miles, fifth service interval performed by dealership. Not charged for service to make up for original snafu at beginning of ownership period.

I need no other explanation to see why the Prius ranks at the top of owner satisfaction surveys. It is simply a car built by a far superior carmaker. Garbage Motors could stand to learn a thing or two about how to build cars from Toyota.

 

How far Saturn has fallen! When they first came out, they were well-built, high-satisfaction vehicles. What happened????

 

When Saturn was started it was a partnership of sorts between GM and Toyota. The phrase of the day is "strange bedfellows". This was at a time when GMs quality was even worse than it is today, and Toyota's quality was without question in spite of their rather utilitarian and uncreative use of interior materials (corduroy upholstery and a plethora of little plugged slots in the dash for accessories you didn't get, or weren't available). Oh, I'm so glad those days have passed.

Anyway, the joint venture was NUMMI. Something like New United Motor Manufacturing Inc. Don't quote me on that one, I'm pulling it off the top of my head. And so between Toyota and GM, Saturn was created. A company which wasn't needed, had nothing special to offer and has yet to actually produce a vehicle with historical or engineering importance to the world.

I've known a number of people in college who had Saturns, and some were very good, some were very bad but none were anything to write home about.

 

Saturn was not a Toyota/GM collaboration. NUMMI (http://www.nummi.com/) was the partnership formed by GM and Toyota in California that manufactures Toyota Corolla, Tacoma, and Pontiac Vibe and used to make the Nova/Prism twins. Saturn was set up by GM as a company to make small cars to try and provide an American alternative to small import cars. NUMMI had nothing to do with it.

 

GM abanoned the original mission statement, and started calling the shots.