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Israel Attacks Syria - ? Nuclear depot ?

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by dbermanmd, Sep 24, 2007.

  1. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    Below are several articles relating to an Israeli attack on a Syrian base and cooperation between NoKo and Iran and Syria on WMD's.

    http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=1301
    http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid...icle%2FShowFull
    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...icle2461421.ece

    There are also reports that Israeli commando's raided the site prior to the attack and obtained nuclear material that was traced back to NoKo.

    What is also very notable is the lack of press on this - including the lack of statements being issued by NoKo (which had a number of its technicians killed in the airstrike) Syria, Israel and the US.

    Also, the latest and greatest Russian anti-aircraft system - purportedly the most lethal anti-aircraft net ever to be deployed by the Russians and the same one also found guarding Iranian nuclear facilities - was easily defeated by the Israeli's.

    Food for thought:

    1. there seems to be significant cooperation between NoKo, Syria and Iran in the development and attempted deployment of WMD's. The axis of evil is alive and well.

    2. it seems as though a policy of not allowing the "axis of evil" not to develop nuclear capabilities is in place and a strike against Iranian facilities is a go if they get close enough - whatever that means.

    What do you guys think if we do indeed have physical proof that NoKo is shipping material and equipment and personnel to other countries in an attempt to help them acquire WMD's - especially to countries like Syria and Iran?

    Just some food for thought today and President Ahmadjihad is here by Ground Zero and talking later at Columbia U.
     
  2. eagle33199

    eagle33199 Platinum Member

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    First, i'm not even going to read those first two links. They aren't news sources that i recognize as even being slightly reliable. thats not to say that they aren't, but i have no basis to determine if they are.

    As for the rest of it... I await proof. All i see here is a bunch of speculation and rumor.

    "[...] claims that Israel believed it had destroyed a cache of nuclear materials from North Korea."

    As for the statement "There are North Korean people there. There’s no question about that." I would ask, So what? Were they there on the orders of the NoKo government? Or instead were they experts that had been recruited to leave their country?

    There's a lot of unknowns here, and it's way to early to start jumping to conclusions.

    Of course, if there was a "Jump to Conclusions" mat like in Office Space, I think there would only be 2 or 3 conclusions on yours...
     
  3. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Sep 24 2007, 10:57 AM) [snapback]516864[/snapback]</div>
    whatever - i do like how you start off though.... and i am sure you realize the magnitude of this entire situation - so getting actual pictures and proof will be hard until Israel lets them out.

    tell me what you mean about NoKo experts recruited instead of ordered there -- i did not realize there were choices in NoKo - i guess I must have missed that speech at Columbia U by jung kim dung ill last month. and in either case what do you make of nuclear weapons experts of NoKo origen being in syria - you would want them to have the bomb too??
     
  4. MegansPrius

    MegansPrius GoogleMeister, AKA bongokitty

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  5. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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  6. Darwood

    Darwood Senior Member

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    This poster at DEAWatch has been spot on with every report he sends, so I'll take his word over those of propaganda outfits.

    http://members.aol.com/deawatch/daily.htm

    "Report from the Front:
    Dear DEA Watch,

    Rec'd your commo. Definitive answer is negative. There was no nuclear facy in Syria. The word we are getting in this office is that Israel, in concert with American strategists, enabled the recent action for the primary purpose of acclimating the world press and public to an eventual surprise attack by Israel on Iran. That is, get people used to the idea of Israel making unprovoked and surprise air raids on their Arab neighbors. Some of us here just shook our heads. I, personally, do not believe that Israel's attack on a Syria facy will render an Israeli air attack on an Iranian facy with similar silence and absent of an immediate hostile reaction. One of the people here believes from his information that the operation was made with complete Syrian approval after being paid off by our country. If this is true, when the Syrians realize that they were duped into providing Israel with a PR incident intended to inoculate Iranian AND world outrage that could lead to a massive regional war, the Syrians will become enraged and work with unconventional sources against Israel. Of course, if Syria's president is disclosed has having personally profited from the negotiated deal, then he will be deposed by his people. And if that happens Israelis will deem that a positive move in their interest.

    Another officer I spoke to told me he had observed rpts on Egyptian, Saudi and Iranian communications and that the Iranians were the only ones to launch fighters in which they used their newest air platform which they developed themselves.

    CINC Bush wants to attack Iran. That much all of us here know well. Our general conclusion is that the Israeli operation was intended to assist CINC Bush's overall plans again Iran.

    Will trans more as I learn it."
     
  7. eagle33199

    eagle33199 Platinum Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Sep 24 2007, 10:13 AM) [snapback]516870[/snapback]</div>
    I mean an intelligence operative approaches them and says "hey, if you want to come work for us, we'll tripple your salary and provide you with a dozen new girlfriends." He thinks about, says OK, and is smuggled across the border to work for a different country.

    It's either that, or his bosses in NoKo say "we want you to go to this secret facility and help our friends there."

    Until we know which scenario put those individuals there, if indeed any NoKo's were there, it's all just speculation and coincidence.

    Of course, Darwood's post has a lot of merit too, and it's definitely something i could see as plausible.
     
  8. Darwood

    Darwood Senior Member

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    Don't give me the credit. It's not my quote. But this guy at DEAWatch (Which BTW, lambasts both sides of the aisle) has accurately foreshadowed many important events, so I tend to pay attention to what he says. There is nothing but speculation to both sides of the stories, which begs the question, "What did they bomb?" If it was a noteworthy target, why aren't there stories, pictures, posts from people in Syria, outspoken anger from the Syrian gov't, etc.?" The worlwide disinterest in the bombing, tends to point to it NOT being a "Nucular" facility.
     
  9. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Darwood @ Sep 24 2007, 11:45 AM) [snapback]516881[/snapback]</div>
    this makes zero sense at all
     
  10. Darwood

    Darwood Senior Member

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    "There are also reports that Israeli commando's raided the site prior to the attack and obtained nuclear material that was traced back to NoKo. "

    Neither does this.
    If this had ANY validity, it would be all over the news. It's the smoking gun that the sabre rattlers has been searching for since the "Nigerian yellow cake" and "aluminum tube" fiascos were shown to be untrue.

    Could you please elaborate on the part's you don't understand?
    It seemed quite clear to me. (Keeping in mind, this is some mole's opinion, only).
     
  11. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Darwood @ Sep 24 2007, 01:54 PM) [snapback]516956[/snapback]</div>
    actually it would not be all over the news - it benefits no one to let it out - it hurts noko, syria and iran for sure and it also would be a trump card the US and israel do not want to play.

    questions for you:

    why would israel attack syria?
    why would israel potentially kill or put into harms way NoKo personell?
    how do you explain israel using a route over turkey/ a north approach to the target?
    what target would be worthy of an israeli attack out of the blue??
    why now?
    why not before the new russian anti-aircraft system was set up?
    why not cruise missiles?


    your post has absolutely nothing in it that makes any sense at all.

    btw - the israeli commando raid makes TONS of sense. israel would want and need US approval for the raid and the best way to get it would be with evidence - especially if this was a nuclear depot or facility with potential hazzardous fallout.
     
  12. apriusfan

    apriusfan New Member

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    My two cents worth is that the Syrian facility was attacked to provide a wake-up call to the mullahs in Qom. Prior to 1991, Iraq had the most robust air defenses in the region. Now it is both Syria and Iran that have the most robust air defenses in the region (apart from the U.S. implementations). I think it can credibly be argued that the Syrian air defenses were taken down and a facility was destroyed to prove a point to the Iranians - you can be reached and touched with impunity. Having the Israelis do it with fewer resources (although I wouldn't doubt for a minute they had help; afterall, there is only one place to go for F-117 and B-2 resources) sends a double message to the Iranians.
     
  13. Darwood

    Darwood Senior Member

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    "it benefits no one to let it out"
    That's BS and you know it.
    Bush would LOVE to have proof to wave in front of the world. It would kill any arguments against attacking Iran, which as of now, he simply does not have the backing for, politically.

    "your post has absolutely nothing in it that makes any sense at all. "
    It's not my post. It's a post from a military officer in Bagdad.
    I have doubts about it too, but not as many doubts as I do about the points you posted.
     
  14. eagle33199

    eagle33199 Platinum Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Sep 24 2007, 01:08 PM) [snapback]516962[/snapback]</div>
    Typical Berman response... "I don't know how to defend my position against yours, so i'll declare yours to be pure idiocy."
     
  15. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(apriusfan @ Sep 24 2007, 02:11 PM) [snapback]516964[/snapback]</div>
    i do not agree. no wake up call needed - and why potentially give away new attack patterns and radar and intelligence data to the bad guys (the syrians and iranians). they would not randomly take out a target to prove a point. they would not risk human assets for that. they could have done the same with cruise missiles. as of now i am totally unaware of american involvement. israel has no f-117's - tooo expensive and not necessary - no b-2's either --- way toooo expensive and completely not necessary. now if you postied that israel has the f22 raptor - i could stretch my imagination a little bit although since less than 100 have been made to date - i do not think the US is at the point of supplying israel yet.

    what fewer resources does israel have when it comes to air assets than the us except for possibly stealth aircraft??

    again, you have provided not one concept that would be worthy of why israel would risk such a move now.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Sep 24 2007, 02:29 PM) [snapback]516971[/snapback]</div>
    please - give me one good reason for israel to risk war, to risk human assets to attack an aspirin plant or something totally worthless?
     
  16. Darwood

    Darwood Senior Member

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    "get people used to the idea of Israel making unprovoked and surprise air raids on their Arab neighbors"

    "providing Israel with a PR incident intended to inoculate Iranian AND world outrage"
     
  17. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Sep 24 2007, 02:29 PM) [snapback]516971[/snapback]</div>
    what position am i defending? we all know israel attacked syria - we are just postulating as to why? you think they did it for basically fun - i think there had to be a significant target(s) to warrant them risking human assets and all the intelligence that could have been gathered by the bad guys (the syrians and iranians).
     
  18. apriusfan

    apriusfan New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Sep 24 2007, 11:37 AM) [snapback]516974[/snapback]</div>
    You are asking me to prove a negative. Absent an official response from Tel Aviv or Washington, D.C., we will never know exactly what happened. But in passing, if there is no trace of the attacker, how do you give away attack patterns or radar intelligence data? The attack(s) were in the dead of night, local time, and there was no warning of the attack until bombs started exploding. That is the footprint of a stealth attack. If you don't want to believe that F-117s or B-2s were involved, that is your choice. But if you want a dry run for a larger attack, you will have to use manned assets. There aren't enough cruise missiles in our inventory to handle an attack on Iranian targets with cruise missiles alone.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Sep 24 2007, 11:37 AM) [snapback]516974[/snapback]</div>
    Last I checked, Israel does not have as many F-16s or F-15s as the U.S.; they are also short on mid-air refueling resources. They definitely don't have cruise missiles. The point is to work the fear uncertainty and doubt factor with the mullahs to the maximum extent.
     
  19. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(apriusfan @ Sep 24 2007, 02:54 PM) [snapback]516983[/snapback]</div>
    are you claiming the United States participated int his attack - i am unaware of Israel having b2 bombers or f-117 - again way too expensive and totally not needed. israeld does not have cruise missiles?? u r too funny. lets see - they make their own tank, their own plane their own spy satellites their own missiles, they make the trophy system to protect tanks, they have ground based laser systems in testing and they dont have cruise missiles.... tell me why then does israel have several german made submarines??? to attack enemy supply ships :lol: try guessing... as a platform to deliver nuclear tipped cruise missiles.....

    by the way - a little birdie told me israel had launched commando attacks against their ground based radar prior to the attack.

    a larger attack? again - why not use cruise missiles alone?? or even standoff weapons which could be launched from within israeli airspace and are too small to detect??

    you honestly think israel went to attack an aspirin factory or something nonsensical like that - for what gain?? the bad guys (syria, iran) already know what we can do and fear bush and israel will do something - thats already well established.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(apriusfan @ Sep 24 2007, 02:54 PM) [snapback]516983[/snapback]</div>
    here is an article that states israel does have cruise missiles
    http://www.fas.org/nuke/intro/cm/index.html
     
  20. eagle33199

    eagle33199 Platinum Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Sep 24 2007, 01:46 PM) [snapback]516982[/snapback]</div>
    Your position concerning nuclear arms and materials at the base and their origins.