1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Israel Under Attack - Looking for Advice

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by dbermanmd, May 17, 2007.

  1. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    8,553
    18
    0
    Location:
    manhattan
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Below is an article from jpost.com. My question to you is what should Israel do? They gave back the Gaza Strip for nothing in return except the hope for peace. This was the step before giving back the West Bank. What they have gotten in return is a continual barrage of missiles being launced from the Gaza by Hamas - the elected government of the Palestinians. Recently this missile attack has gotten particularly severe with over 50 missiles launched into Israel over the past day or two.

    What should Israel do?


    "Kassam rockets continued to bombard Sderot on Thursday morning, after over 20 rockets hit the western Negev on Wednesday.

    By 3 p.m., at least 13 Kassam hits had been reported in Sderot and the western Negev. Magen David Adom paramedics were treating a mother and her nine-year-old daughter, both of whom were suffering from shock. A car was also damaged.

    Another rocket hit a high school near Sapir College, causing significant damage and lightly wounding two pupils.

    A moshav in the Eshkol Regional Council also suffered a Kassam hit. One of its greenhouses was reportedly damaged, but no one was wounded.

    On Wednesday night, a Kassam rocket reportedly hit a four-story apartment building in the city. Several people were reportedly suffering from shock as a result, while another rocket hit a transformer, knocking out electricity in parts of the city.

    Earlier Wednesday, the Sderot Municipality prepared to temporarily evacuate 4,000 residents after Palestinians fired approximately 50 rockets into the area around the Gaza border within 24 hours.

    A 70-year-old woman sustained serious shrapnel wounds when a Kassam rocket hit her Sderot home, and was evacuated to Barzilai Hospital in Ashkelon. A man was lightly wounded in the attack, and four others were treated for shock, bringing the total number of shock victims for the day to 18. "
     
  2. Darwood

    Darwood Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2005
    5,259
    268
    1
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    They should kill time on a hybrid car chat site and bit** about how they are persecuted.
    Is there something unusual about this? These 2 sides have been engaged in land battle there for longer than I've been alive. It's too bad they can't get along, but this is not my fight and I don't have a horse in the race.
     
  3. eagle33199

    eagle33199 Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    5,122
    268
    0
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two
    Like darwood said, this is really nothing new... these two have been going at it for a long time, and frankly it really doesn't effect a vast majority of us...
     
  4. mpgFanatic

    mpgFanatic New Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2007
    112
    2
    0
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ May 17 2007, 09:37 AM) [snapback]444083[/snapback]</div>
    Buy everyone a Prius. Much cheaper than war, and soon everyone will so consumed with mpg and mfd that they will forget who the enemy is.
     
  5. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    8,553
    18
    0
    Location:
    manhattan
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ May 17 2007, 10:26 AM) [snapback]444112[/snapback]</div>
    I thought that the Arab-Israeli conflict was one of the etiologic cornerstones of arab terror? You do have a horse in this race. Back to my question - does Israel sit back and absorp the acts of war or should it respond in self-defense?

    I disagree with giving them both Prius's - i know the Israeli's would use them to get from point A to point B and back again. I know the Palestinians would use them for one way trips if you know what i mean - tell me - is a Prius have more explosive potential with the battery pack than a non-hybrid car --- i would hate for you guys to escalate the level of violence there.



    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mpgFanatic @ May 17 2007, 10:34 AM) [snapback]444126[/snapback]</div>
    Maybe you have a new Iraq War strategy??
     
  6. eagle33199

    eagle33199 Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    5,122
    268
    0
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two
    We suffer from terrorist attacks not because of any Arab-Israeli conflict. We suffer because, simply put, our way of life is different from their, and they take offense. We live in a capitalistic society that holds great power over the rest of the world, and make a pretty big target. An Arab-Israeli conflict would only target Jews, not the rest of the civilized world.

    And FYI, the Prius's batteries aren't explosive. Nice try, but the reduction in the size of the gas tank over other choices would actually make the Prius less flammable.

    As for your comment on Iraq... the strategy for Georgie should have been, from the beginning, sell everything i have, invest in Toyota, and dump billions of tax payer money getting everyone in America to drive a Prius. Instead, he kept his interest in big oil, and invaded Iraq.
     
  7. formerVWdriver

    formerVWdriver New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2007
    258
    0
    0
    I don't know what Israel should do. What do you suggest?

    It would be mighty tempting to return fire in a big way....

    The Palestinians lost my sympathy when they started using their own children as bombs. And nothing Israel does is ever construed as right.

    I keep hoping that Israel will do the world's dirty work and take out the Iranian nuclear capacity. Nobody else has the guts.

    This may sound loony, but I think the best thing Israel could do is relocate to Mexico. The Israelis have shown that they can make the deserts bloom. Give them a chunk of Mexico (or let them buy it) and it would probably help solve our immigration problems, too. There would be jobs and prosperity and stability.

    I know the importance of the Temple, but I do not understand how one spot on earth is any holier than any other spot. The whole earth is holy and filled with the Presence of the Lord.

    Move to Mexico. Then Israel's enemies can't blame their failures on anyone else.

    My useless opinion.
     
  8. burritos

    burritos Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2006
    4,946
    252
    0
    Location:
    California
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ May 17 2007, 08:37 AM) [snapback]444083[/snapback]</div>
    They should implement dberman plan A. Kill all palestinians. Then they should implement dberman plan B kill all Iranians.
     
  9. Darwood

    Darwood Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2005
    5,259
    268
    1
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    You skipped a step.
    -Blame Billary and B hussein Obama
     
  10. Jonnycat26

    Jonnycat26 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2004
    1,748
    1
    0
    Location:
    New Brunswick, NJ
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(formerVWdriver @ May 17 2007, 11:46 AM) [snapback]444183[/snapback]</div>
    You blame an entire population for the sins of a few?
     
  11. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    8,553
    18
    0
    Location:
    manhattan
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(burritos @ May 17 2007, 02:02 PM) [snapback]444301[/snapback]</div>
    You are getting slightly stale. I am assuming you would then propose that the Israeli's should accept continuous missile attacks against their civilian population - in fact a qassam just hit a school a few hours ago?

    It is ok to let another sovereign entity attack another one??
     
  12. eagle33199

    eagle33199 Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    5,122
    268
    0
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ May 17 2007, 01:39 PM) [snapback]444324[/snapback]</div>
    You seem to think it is... at least, you stood up and cheered when we attacked Iraq, and still cheer our actions there every chance you get...
     
  13. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    8,553
    18
    0
    Location:
    manhattan
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ May 17 2007, 02:36 PM) [snapback]444322[/snapback]</div>
    ? - you see the new Palestinian mickey mouse that encourages palestinians to attack and kill Israeli's?

    The sins of a few - what is you definition of a few - 70% of their population - is that the % Hamas got in their free general election last year? And everyone there knew Hamas was/is a terror organization bent on killing Jews -----

    Should Israel defend itself at this point or should they let Hamas/Palestinians continue to shower them with missiles?
     
  14. formerVWdriver

    formerVWdriver New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2007
    258
    0
    0
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ May 17 2007, 02:36 PM) [snapback]444322[/snapback]</div>
    I wouldn't use the word "few."

    It seems that the population celebrates "the few's" "martyrdom" rather than condemning it, which makes them complicit.

    Further, have you seen the trend in Palestinian baby pictures, where the child is dressed up as a suicide bomber? Little kids? This is child abuse!
     
  15. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    8,553
    18
    0
    Location:
    manhattan
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ May 17 2007, 02:41 PM) [snapback]444328[/snapback]</div>
    try focusing on this issue.... what would you have Israel do - sit and take it or strike back??
     
  16. MarkMN

    MarkMN New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2007
    226
    0
    0
    Location:
    Downtown Minneapolis
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ May 17 2007, 01:42 PM) [snapback]444329[/snapback]</div>

    Hamas also fed and clothed the poor people of Palestine for several years, which probably won them quite a bit of favor (Because everything one says at FHOP gets spinned, I issue the following note: I do not support Hamas as a terrorist organization nor do I support terrorist activities of any kind).

    I don't know what any of them can do to fix their issues with each other, as far as I am concerned, it looks like a bunch of idiots fighting over some sand. If I was Jewish, I would choose to live anywhere but the middle east, and if I was Muslum, I would choose to live anywhere else but the middle east.
     
  17. burritos

    burritos Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2006
    4,946
    252
    0
    Location:
    California
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ May 17 2007, 01:39 PM) [snapback]444324[/snapback]</div>
    I certainly don't have the answer to this solution.

    Your thread here obviously had one purpose. And that's to make Israel look like the victim to a persistant vicious terrorist group. This is just another thread to make people feel sorry for the Jews. Wasn't your previous thread a calling about how anti-semetic the rest of the world is. Yawn.

    If one participates in this "logical exercise" that starts with PALESTINIAN TERRORISTS ARE ONCE AGAIN ATTACKING ISRAEL what else can one conclude other than to use military force against Palestinians right? Otherwise the alternative is to "propose that the Israeli's should accept continuous missile attacks against their civilian population".

    So which is it? Attack or don't attack? And if Israel attacks and the Palestinians attack back, then what?

    I'm not an expert on the Israel/Palestinian conflict, but I'm guessing both sides are culpable in this conflict. So you're probably going to ask, well what should we do now then. I care about this as much you probably did with the Irish/Brits, Chinese/Taiwanese, North Korea/South Korea, and the Darfur/Janjaweed conflict. None of us are experts with this middle east BS, so are you really looking for a solution from a bunch of prius owners? No. So I played your game and gave you the answer to where your question comes to its logical conclusion.

    I'm stale. No sir, you're search for Israeli/Jewish pity is stale. The holocaust came and went, get over it. What are you looking for, affirmative action? You want to do something for "your" people? Go to Israel and tend to the innocent victims you care so dearly for. Then pick up a rifle and go fight for Israel, cause at least that's a nation where everyone does there fair share of fighting.
     
  18. eagle33199

    eagle33199 Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    5,122
    268
    0
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ May 17 2007, 02:40 PM) [snapback]444357[/snapback]</div>
    I was focusing on the issue at hand. My response was a perfectly valid one. See, it's useless posing anything resembling a coherent argument against you - you'll just twist the words, or ignore most of it, or whatever else it is you do to feel like you have a superior position.

    You asked if if it is ok to let another sovereign entity attack another one. I replied with a perfectly valid answer - we did. Personal feelings about the war in Iraq have been debated long and hard on this board, and are well known. view points as to whether or not we should have attacked, or should withdraw are well known. In fact, Berman, we've had this very discussion about what constitutes proper provocation for military action. I don't feel the need to repeat myself.


    So let me ask you - If we felt it was proper to go into Iraq because we disagreed with their government and their way of doing things, is it proper for Palestine to attack Israel for the same reason? The only difference between the two is the individual point of view and the military strength of the two sides. (NOTE: I do not support the attacks, Palestine, terrorism, suicide bombings, etc. this is posed as an intellectual argument only) On the flip side, would it be appropriate for Israel to attack Palestine for these same reasons?

    Face it Berman, you created this thread looking for a fight. Your wording gave us only two options, both of which vilify one set of people while making the other look like completely innocent targets. the world isn't this black and white.
     
  19. Darwood

    Darwood Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2005
    5,259
    268
    1
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Well said.
    I feel no need to pick a side here. "You're with us or against us" is just as invalid here as it is in other commonly used contexts. Now if Isreal was overflowing with oil resources.....
     
  20. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2005
    8,553
    18
    0
    Location:
    manhattan
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MarkMN @ May 17 2007, 03:46 PM) [snapback]444364[/snapback]</div>
    now that we have the dreaming part over - should israel defend itself or not?

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(burritos @ May 17 2007, 03:56 PM) [snapback]444370[/snapback]</div>

    Actually some Prius owners are smart.

    How do you get over the Holocaust - just interested.

    And I am glad you are not for affirmative action.

    My people are Americans - thanks.

    And we agree, Israel should defend itself - if it were me, I would act with overwhelming force this time and not just a missile or two here or there.

    How is Israel culpable here if they gave back the Gaza Strip and got nothing in return except war? What incentives do they have to give back the West Bank?

    Where are the moderate/peacenik Palestinians?