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It runs at 52+ MPG, and now declared a total loss?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by Capricious, Jul 8, 2008.

  1. Capricious

    Capricious New Member

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    It all started in early January. Those of you who live in Bay Area might be able recall a wet, sometimes stormy winter time then. One night I ran into a segment of highway ramp which was flooded with seemingly residue water. My Prius was stuck there, and I finally struggled it out but not until floor mat was all wet.

    After this 'solo accident' the car still runs great, with average gas milage at 52+, but with the exception of GPS and auto audio. Both are no longer powered on. One car repair quoted at $14,000 for material and labor and the other, $7,000. But my insurance company (AAA) won't cover either offer. Total loss, they say, and threaten that they will savage the title, declaring it 'no repair value' due to unforeseeable damage. A total loss for running vehicle, with above average fuel efficiency? I'm dumbfounded.

    Is that the common practice involving a hybrid? I have no idea since I have no exposure to any major accident. Your information on this regard will be highly appreciated.

    Anyways the lesson I want to share with you is: don't try your luck with any standing water! If my Prius finally ends up in junk yard, I'd blame myself for this possibly biggest negative environmental impact caused by me, and it all began with a miscalculation.
     
  2. echase

    echase New Member

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    Insurance companies benefit from what is known to them as a LEO (Loss Economic Opportunity). The bottom line is that they believe they will pay out less by declaring your car a total loss and selling it (under a salvage title) at auction then they would pay to repair it. Don't worry, it won't be in a junkyard for long. It will be repaired and sold (without factory warranty) under salvage title.

    DO NOT ACCEPT THIER FIRST LOWBALL OFFER. You are entitled to be "Made Whole" by your insurance company (use that term), this means they are responsible to put you in the same economic condition you were in before the loss. Since your vehicle is selling for more than sticker price used, you are entitled to a settlement of that market value. The estimate they will provide from the CCC will include out-of-date comparable vehicles that are no longer available to purchase... these should be excluded from the appraisal, and you can send them comparable vehicles within your market area (200 miles in GA, i'm not sure about CA) Autotrader and Cars.com are good search engines for finding comparable cars. They use cars from the same model year, or one year newer and make adjustments based on options differences and mileage differences.

    My 2006 #1 with 21,000 miles was totaled last month, and I went though objecting to their offer, sending comps (and a demand letter I wrote), and ended up accepting the second offer which was $3000 more than the first, and about $2000 more than I paid for the vehicle two years previous. A lawyer friend told me I could have gotten about $1500 more if I had persisted and contacted the state insurance commissioner's office, but I was anxious to get paid out and into a new car. The settlement put me into a 2008 package 2 with $500 leftover for aftermarket accessories.

    It's a shame they are totaling out your car. Try to use this fact to appeal to the senior sales staff (try the sales DIRECTOR (not "manager" ... most dealers have several of those, and they are just senior salesman) or General Manager of the dealership) I got my replacement last week in the color and package I wanted at sticker price, with only a two week wait.

    Sorry about your loss. Good luck on getting a speedy and fair resolution.
     
  3. echase

    echase New Member

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    Double post deleted.
     
  4. GatorJZ

    GatorJZ Member

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    READ your policy. No one can tell you what your insurance company is or is not obligated to do without having read your contract (the policy) with your insurance company. The language "made whole" will most likely not be found in it.
     
  5. Capricious

    Capricious New Member

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    Thank you eChase for your valuable time and insight. It's great relief to know that they are not gonna shred it, as GM had done to EV1. Someone or even myself (yes, they did offer buy-back option) can still use my poor Prius and save gas.

    And also thank GatorJZ. This is just what I'm up to.
     
  6. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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  7. Sheepdog

    Sheepdog C'Mere Sheepie!

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    It appears our Prii do not care for water very much. This is the second or third post about water totaling a car I have seen lately.
     
  8. sorka

    sorka Active Member

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    In California, they have to offer you first right at the salvage and the price will be a lot lower than what they can get at auction.

    Let them pay you off the full market value of the car(currently well above MSRP), and buy the salvage back and keep driving it. Pocket the extra money.
     
  9. subarutoo

    subarutoo New Member

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    Just FYI, water immersion problems are not Prius-unique. Any car with similar accessories could have suffered the same fate. The alternative is to drive a jacked up monster truck, but who needs that? Sorry for your loss. :(
     
  10. miscrms

    miscrms Plug Envious Member

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    Was about to suggest the same thing :D

    Residual value should only be a few $k. At the very least if you decide you don't want to have to worry about it, maybe offer it at the same residual cost to one of the Prius shops to be rebuilt. At least then you will know that it won't go to a junkyard. Below is the guy I bought mine from:
    Plug In Hybrid Electric Vehicle PHEV

    Come to think of it, maybe you should just sell it to me at that price :cool:

    Rob
     
  11. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

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    Ditto this.

    There's essentially nothing wrong with your car.

    If you're not handy, you might know someone that can help you through what the guy in the UK did to get it functioning.

    Be wary of buying back your car from your ins. as salvage. Getting it "unsalvaged" in California and then insured again won't be fun.
     
  12. echase

    echase New Member

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  13. echase

    echase New Member

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    Not entirely true... insurance is a highly regulated industry.

    I urge you to fight for your best settlement, and familiarize yourself with the law. They have, and they will use their superior knowledge to pay you as little as possible. FYI: Many insurance appraisers are evaluated on the amount of money they pay out in settlements such as this. Be friendly, but remember the appraiser is in this for business.

    I am speaking from recent experience here. My second offer was $3,000 more than my first on a total loss last month.

    And I'll second the idea of getting the best possible settlement, and doing your own repairs.

    Here's the applicable California law:

    (excepted from the code as posted at: CALIFORNIA CODE OF REGULATIONS, TITLE 10) - I'm too busytoo look it up on westlaw.

    b) When the insurance policy provides for the adjustment and settlement of first party automobile total losses on the basis of actual cash value or replacement with a comparable automobile, one of the following methods must apply:

    (1) The insurer may elect a cash settlement based upon the actual cost, less any deductible provided in the policy, to purchase a comparable automobile including all applicable taxes, license fees and other fees incident to transfer of evidence of ownership of a comparable automobile. Such cost shall be determined as follows and, once determined, shall be fully itemized and explained in writing for the claimant:

    (A) when comparable automobiles are available or were available in the local market area in the last 90 days, the average cost of two or more such comparable automobiles; or,

    (B) when comparable automobiles are not available in the local market area, the average of two or more quotations from two or more licensed dealers in the local market area; or,

    (C) when an automobile total loss is adjusted or settled on a basis which varies from the methods described in subsections (b)(1)(A) and (b)(1)(B) of this section, the determination of value must be supported by documentation. Any deductions from value, including deduction for salvage, must be discernible, measurable, itemized, and specified as well as be appropriate in dollar amount and so documented in the claims file. The insurer must take reasonable steps to verify that the value so determined is accurate and representative of the market value of a comparable automobile in the local market area.

    (2) The insurer may elect to offer a replacement automobile which is a specified comparable automobile available to the insured, with all applicable taxes, license fees and other fees incident to transfer of evidence of ownership of the automobile paid by the insurer at no cost other than any deductible provided in the policy. The offer and any rejection thereof must be documented in the insurer's claim file. A replacement automobile must be in as good or better over all condition than the insured vehicle and available for inspection within a reasonable distance of the insured's residence.

    (c) Every insurer shall, if notified within thirty-five (35) calendar days after receiving the claim draft or final settlement offer that the insured cannot purchase a comparable automobile for the gross settlement amount, reopen its claim file and utilize the following procedures shall apply:

    (1) The insurer shall locate a comparable automobile for the gross settlement amount determined by the company at the time of settlement and shall provide the insured with the information required in (c)(4), below, or offer a replacement vehicle in accordance with section 2695.8(b)(2). Any such vehicle must be available in the local market area; or,

    (2) The insurer shall either pay the insured the difference between the amount of the gross settlement and the cost of the comparable automobile which the insured has located, or negotiate and purchase this vehicle for the insured; or,

    (3) The insurer shall invoke the appraisal provision of the insurance policy.

    (4) No insurer is required to take action under this subsection if its documentation to the insured at the time of final settlement offer included written notification of the identity of a specified comparable automobile which was available for purchase at the time of final settlement offer for the gross settlement amount determined by the insurer. The documentation shall include the telephone number (including area code) or street address of the seller of the comparable automobile and:

    (A) the vehicle identification number (VIN) or,

    (B) the stock or order number of the vehicle from a licensed dealer, or

    (C) the license plate number of such comparable vehicle.

    (d) No insurer shall, where liability and damages are reasonably clear, recommend that the third party claimant make a claim under his or her own policy to avoid paying the claim under the policy issued by that insurer.
     
  14. sorka

    sorka Active Member

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    You can't unsalvage a CA salvaged vehicle. This is why the buyback residual is so low. Essentially, you'll get paid the full amount of the market value(you may have to fight a little bit for this), and then you have first right of refusal to the salvage. It shouldn't cost more than about $4 or $5K. You simply buy liability insurance and you'll never be able to get full coverage again, but you won't need it because you're car will have been almost free.
     
  15. Capricious

    Capricious New Member

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    Basically, the AAA guy told me that even if I could get a repair quote of $4 for the damage, AAA will not cover it since they deem my car is 'unrepairable, no repair value'. I now realize that my car is in fact without insurance. File any claim and they'll point your way to total loss.

    BTW, this unrepairable car achieved about 51.8 MPG yesterday, a bit lower than that of last month.
     
  16. Capricious

    Capricious New Member

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    To be honest, I'm now seriously thinking about it. Unfortunately, neither the shop you mentioned nor you are local to me. Anyway to locate a nearby Prius-specific business so I can be sure that it won't go to a junkyard? Thanx.
     
  17. cyee

    cyee Junior Member

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    The JBL amp under the passenger seat (and possibly the GPS NAV module under the driver's seat) being damaged will cause symptoms like what you're seeing. I doubt that either of those would cost much to fix with replacement parts from the salvage yard. Do the JBL amp first, since the GPS NAV box probably is quite a bit more in cost.
     
  18. Capricious

    Capricious New Member

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    Thank you echase for researching the law of the land :) and sharing your experiences. May I ask in what stage I can accept or reject the insurer's offer? They leave me the impression that all I have to do is to surrender the car and wait for the check. Doesn't seem like I even have a chance talking to appraiser. Can you enlighten me with some specifics (highlights in procedure)? :confused:
     
  19. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

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    the california insurance industry if rife with corruption, shady practices, and pending lawsuits for claims violations.

    dont take their first offer EVER...they ARE NOT LOOKING OUT FOR YOU!!
     
  20. sorka

    sorka Active Member

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    Since it is easy enough for you to prove the going rate is more than MSRP on used vehicles, I'd allow them to total it and insist on the market value which you will document through various sources. Then buy the salvage back for dirt cheap and keep driving it. This is a gift horse and you are staring it in the face when you should be taking advantage of the situation.