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It's a sick society where people drive to the gym ...

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by chogan2, Aug 23, 2011.

  1. chogan2

    chogan2 Senior Member

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    That's a quote from John Brunow, former owner of Bikes at Vienna, a specialty bike shop in Vienna, VA.

    And I agree with that.

    However, here's the challenge.

    I'm a fat guy (6'1", 250 lbs) who needs to get to the gym daily. It's about a 14 mile round trip.

    I've biked it. It's a tough trip. I won't bike it on a daily basis.

    Assume for the moment that I won't switch to something closer, because I have such a good deal with and am happy with my current gym. Further assume that buying home-gym equipment is not a substitute. (I own some, I don't/won't use it.)

    Further assume safety is not an issue. Assume weather is not an issue. Assume I can get there traveling no more than 45 MPH. Assume I have to be able to do at least 45 MPH, to keep up with traffic.

    What do I buy? What's my lowest-energy solution to doing this @#$ round trip, which I know I ought to bike, but which I just will not bike on a daily basis.

    Obviously, the low hurdle is a 50 mpg Prius. I can nudge that up a bit because I have a retrofit PHEV Prius, so net-net, with the grid-based electricity, maybe I get something like 55 or 60 MPG on a C02-equivalent basis.

    Just to pre-empt, by my calculation, neither Leaf nor Volt will beat that, at 3 miles per KWH, charging off the VA power grid. (And my house sucks for solar, had it looked at already, so a solar-powered Leaf is not it, for me.)

    Also to jump-start, when I look at motorcycle guides, I find a handful over 60 MPG, e.g.,
    http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/MotorcycleFuelEconomyGuide/2011-MPG.htm

    I guess I'm really after something that will delivery substantially better fuel economy than a Prius. Like double, say. But all I see in that range is like 50 cc engines, and I can guarantee you that isn't going to cut it for accelerating a 250 lb guy to 45 mph.

    So that's my challenge. Is the Prius really that efficient, that it can't be beat, even if you strip it down to one seat and a 250 lb payload? Please offer suggestions for a single-passenger vehicle, capable of transporting a 250-lb adult, getting better than 60 MPG (or MPG-equivalent for electric), able to do at least 45 MPH, and license-able for street use. Is there anything out there at 100 MPG?

    All serious suggestions appreciated. Baloney is not (e.g., "lose weight" is unhelpful, "suck it up and bike" is unhelpful). Ideally, provide a link to the product I ought to buy. Thanks in advance for any help you can give.
     
  2. ETC(SS)

    ETC(SS) The OTHER One Percenter.....

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    In the end.....you may have to stop sweating it (pun intended) and keep doing what's working for you.
    I've struggled with physical fitness all of my adult life, not so much for my geometry (5'9" @ 178lb) although I could certainly sweat off a few pounds, but because I left the most sedentary part of the Navy, for a reserve gig that places a much greater emphasis on the grunting and sweating thing. Also....I'm getting a little long in the tooth for the Hoo-Ya thing.

    OK...for me the easiest (and cheapest) solution was to invest in a quality treadmill and some free weights and a BowFlex.
    That's me. You're you.
    If the gym membership is working for you.....keep doing that. Hint: If you're shedding pounds......it's working. If not....stop, evaluate, and then decide whether or not you want to turn in your door fob.
    As far as the energy throughput, you're already driving a PHEV Upgraded G2, and so you're already doing more than the other 99.44 percent where gasoline usage is concerned.
    Try to group your trips and put the giveacrap switch in the don't position!
    Really!
    Permission granted!!

    If you vapor-lock in a few years from not successfully getting yourself into proper cardiovascular shape....that will save the planet a TON of energy.....but it's not going to do you much good, now is it?

    If you're really into the transport-by-electricity thing, your next step is a DOT approved electric scooter, but as I stated before, it would be faaaaar better to get capture on your weight and CV health. Then you can enter a maintenance mode for physical fitness where numerous trips to a gym are no longer necessary.

    Good Luck!
    JMHO.
     
  3. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    You've narrowed your parameters so much and are so inflexible, I simply wish you luck with your challenge.

    In my opinion? If you are out of shape, and your priority is getting yourself back in better shape, then getting to the Gym should be more important than "how" you get to the Gym.

    I understand the "ideal" that one should be willing to walk, run, or bike to The Gym as opposed to driving with fuel guzzling ease...but I think it boils down to your priority. Which is higher...getting into shape personally? OR...transporting yourself with the greatest economical and fuel consumptive possibility?

    You can chose whatever product you want to apply, including a bus pass, to get you to the Gym...but if personal health is the issue, then just get to the gym. I don't care if you hire a group of people to transport you in an English Sedan Chair.

    I recently purchased a bicycle. I've enjoyed it more than I thought. Not only does it offer transportation without burning any immediate fossil fuels, but it does offer exercise, connection with the enviroment around me, and it makes me feel younger...

    I can understand being honest about ones desires and current abilities. If at this point biking is not a long term option? I'd think about scooters or motorcycles.
     
  4. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    Just to shake up your thinking a little bit, what's so special about the gym? Sure, most people associate lifting weights with gaining muscle and burning off fat, but it's hardly the only practical method.

    First, I'd suggest looking at your diet. If calorie counts don't motivate you, calculate how many hours of weights it will take you to burn off that dish of ice cream, and you'll soon be less tempted to eat things that aren't good for you.

    Then, try to incorporate more exercise into your daily routine. Walking is a very healthful way to get around, for both you and the environment. Try to do some errands on foot instead of by car. Or go for a bike ride, only as far and as fast as you feel like. If the gym's too far, don't ride that far. Or go somewhere more interesting, and have a nap to rest up for the ride home. Hiking is another great form of exercise that gets you outside, enjoying natural beauty. Sweating away in a stale, smelly gym every day is just punishment. Make it fun.

    You don't have to buy anything at all. Not even a gym membership. :)
     
  5. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    For this use, I think the reference point should be the original Insight, not Prius.
     
  6. dogfriend

    dogfriend Human - Animal Hybrid

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    Segway? I thought about commuting with one once, but realized that a bike was more practical. But it could work, especially if you could plug in at the gym. If you are willing to compromise on the 45 mph part. (I think they are limited to < 20 mph)
     
  7. gogreenalltheway

    gogreenalltheway New Member

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    Going to the gym for me is a top priority above almost anything else. Are there any alternative means for you to get to the gym, like for example, buses or maybe meet a training partner who you can go with. I am vaguely familiar with Virginia. I do know Maryland very well and can tell you that the bus system there is truly atrocious. They come once every hour or so, and if you miss that bus, you'll be waiting quite a while for the next one. Also, what are the hours of your gym? Most gyms usually open around 6am and close at 10pm or 11pm.

    Do you have any plug-in stations near you or maybe within a close radius from your gym? That could be another possible solution. A bicycle (I know, I know) can be your ENTIRE cardio workout to and from your gym. You will also develop very very powerful legs in the process, and of course burn lots of fat. So, basically, biking to the gym could be a win-win situation for you. As long as you have the will, there is always a way amigo :)
     
  8. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Really dumb quote. Roads and time often make going to the gym before or after work the best alternative. 7 miles isn't all that bad and a good warm up, but if your like me time is a major factor, and if you do that 14 mile ride slow you don't have time to do a work out. If you do it fast, you probably don't have the energy. Why not just bike a couple of days a week, or run, etc instead of going to the gym. Its good to change up your work out routine. I've coached beginner and intermediate marathoners, but without knowing your individual condition, take any work out advice with a great deal of skepticism. Often you can get better results working out 5 days a week than 7, since your body needs to recover.

    If you are happy with doing the gym 7 days a week I wouldn't worry about the gas. Your health is more important.
     
  9. chogan2

    chogan2 Senior Member

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    OK, thanks all, I guess. My interest here really is in transport. I already bike a lot. The Insight as the standard makes sense, but a) the EPA-rated mileage for (e.g.) the 2005 Insight is hardly different from a modern Prius, and b) I own a car that gets slightly better MPG equivalent anyway. I just thought to look for something down-market that could beat that, just enough vehicle to handle 45 MPH, and one person. Took a look and came up empty, so I thought I'd ask here. Figuring that this is the type of crowd that would be familiar with ultra-efficient transport.

    The whole thing strikes me as odd. On the one hand, you've got a 3000 lb vehicle capable of highway speeds, with room for five passengers. With an off-the-shelf modification to make it a little more efficient. Yet if you require just one passenger and just 45 mph (which is what I need for this particular purpose), it doesn't look like I can beat that for efficiency, short of a really micro-engine scooter that I don't think would be drivable in traffic. There is no single-passenger street-capable 45 mph 100 mpg transport.

    This will continue to bother me. By my calculation, when I drive to the gym, the car burns roughly 10x as any calories as I do, at 31000 calories in a gallon of gas. I've been a member of this (brand of) gym for more than 20 years, but I think I'm going to have to switch to a gym I can bike to in a reasonable amount of time.
     
  10. richsc

    richsc New Member

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    Nah, what is really annoying is seeing all these gym rats fight for parking spaces close to the front door of malls.
     
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  11. bzyrice

    bzyrice Active Member

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    How about a motorcycle? Those get good gas mileage..
     
  12. Corwyn

    Corwyn Energy Curmudgeon

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    Have you looked into electric scooters? For example http://www.zelectricvehicle.com/index.html They claim a 41 mile range on 2.86 kWh @ 50 MPH. Which works out to over 400 mpg(e).

    I know you said not to say 'lose weight', but the question should be asked, are you losing weight with your current habit of going to the gym? One needs to do a lot of gym type exercise to burn a significant amount of calories. My first recommendation on that front would be to work on improving your diet. Many people are eating things without enough nutritive content, requiring them to eat too much of it.
     
  13. wick1ert

    wick1ert Senior Member

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    A regular scooter should net you close to 80mpg, at least according to the guy across the street from me. They'll easily do the speeds you're looking for. IIRC, he said his is a 300-400cc engine. Heck, even my 800cc motorcycle nets me 50mpg combined, and I'm only a hair lighter than you, at 190 ;)
     
  14. Much More Better

    Much More Better Active Member

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    Good for you for wanting to get yourself into shape. If you don't have one already, get yourself a heart rate monitor. It will help you dial in the amount of exertion you need to be working aerobically at. You shouldn't be cruising at a pace that you can comfortably carry a conversation. But you shouldn't be killing yourself for only 20min and calling it a day.

    I don't care for gyms. What is it there that you can't do at home? If it's cardio you're looking for, either bike or buy a treadmill if you have room at home. If it's weights, then I prefer free-weights as opposed to machines anyway. $600 should get you a rack and bench and that will give you more than enough flexibility.

    Finally, read "Younger Next Year" by Chris Crowley and Dr. Henry Lodge. I'm not the self-help/motiviational guru type at all, in fact, I think they're kinda cheesey. But this book is changing my life. I heard the speaker at a dental conference once and he blew my mind. He wasn't selling a diet or exercise routine. Just a lot of common sense, backed by science, presented in such a way that is fun and not nagging. How you get to the gym is irrelevant, just make it count when you're there.
     
  15. PriusSport

    PriusSport senior member

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    Ha. I've seen these tiny women parking their humungous SUVs--I mean the ones about 20 ft long--at the local shopping center.

    The smaller the woman, the bigger the SUV.

    This country is in for a rude awakening at some point in the future. I just hope it isn't in my lifetime.
     
  16. cyclopathic

    cyclopathic Senior Member

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    a couple ideas:
    Currie Technologies - eZip Trailz Hybrid Electric Bicycle - EZ-TRZ-BK
    Electric bike kits: the ultimate guide
    and etc

    Ninja 250 would do, used one ~ 1-1.5K could be obtained, will go up to 100 but runs out of steam ~80-85. The lowest MPG on it ~68, mid-70s at speeds below 60MPH. Add a few hundred for helmet, boots, jacket..

    when I worked at Bolston, I used to bike to work; drive to trail and rest biking. No traffic, free parking (Arlington county mandates garage operators to provide free bicycle racks). The round trip would be 40min longer, but I'd get 2hr of workout every day.

    IMHO instead thinking "14.5mi one way.. it will take me 2hr+ for round trip", it will help to think of it as an "extra 2hr workout.. I burn 1,000cal and it only takes 1hr as I don't have to spend 1hr in a car!"
     
  17. ksstathead

    ksstathead Active Member

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    2009 Zero Motorcycles Zero S Specifications - CleanMPG Forums

    The Zero S electric motorcycle.

    I think about this problem often. Amazingly few ways to beat our 5-seater.

    One can also do a conversion of most any motorcycle to electric, but off the shelf there are not a lot of electric motorcycles, and they are not cheap for 1-person transport.
     
  18. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

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    Not to say 'suck it up...', but 7 miles really isn't that far. For some, that's walking distance. :rolleyes: No, the weather's not always conducive to cycling, but would riding to the gym at least some days work for you? The more you do, the more you'll be able to do.

    Also consider the 'efficiency' of buying another vehicle, just for this purpose. Overall, it's likely better to drive your Prius and stop worrying about it. Maybe you could start a carpool? :cool:
     
  19. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    My exact approach. In addition, I run the local climbing gym to stay in shape for rock climbing.

    Tom
     
  20. chogan2

    chogan2 Senior Member

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    Thank you, that's exactly what I'm looking for. Electric motorcycle was a little too much ride, ebikes won't keep up with 45 mph traffic (and at speed, you pretty much need a full suspension around on the roads around here). Scooters in general, I guess I dismissed them as those little things that high school kids ride, but that's a misperception.

    Looking at the data, if the specs on this electric scooter are even close to right, it must be true that small gas engines have large thermal losses, or something. And that explains why I'm not seeing an MPG improvement proportional to the loss of functionality and mass, when comparing a Prius to (e.g.) a motorcycle. I understand that a lot of this is about air resistance, but still, that's not much gain. So where (by my calc) a Prius and a Volt are more-or-less tied for efficiency or C02/mile, e-scooter and seemingly equivalent gas scooter differ more than 3-to-1 in energy/mile and C02/mile. And given that electricity pretty much is-what-it-is, efficiency-wise, I think that has to be due to the inherent inefficiency of small gas engines.

    So now that scooters have been pointed out to me, the Honda PCX with 125 cc motor claims 110 MPG, top end of 50 mph. Plausibly would work. This ZEV scooter appears to have similar specs but is more than 3x as efficient. Costs maybe $900 more.

    Edit: Reading a few things on the 'net, I think I figured out why scooter/motorcycle engines are inefficient. It's not because they are small, so much. It's that they've been optimized for power output per unit of weight, and sacrifice a lot of efficiency to get that. So they are, in fact, the mirror image of the Atkinson-cycle Prius engine, where you have lower power-to-weight but exceptional efficiency. They get exception power-to-weight, at low average efficiency. And that's why the reduction in gas use is not proportional to the reduction in size, comfort, functionality, moving from a Prius to the typical motorcycle or scooter. Plus, a lot of wind resistance.