1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Japan sets an example

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by maggieddd, Feb 18, 2006.

  1. maggieddd

    maggieddd Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    2,090
    13
    0
    Location:
    Boston
  2. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    14,816
    2,497
    66
    Location:
    Far-North Chicagoland
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    I like to save energy and money, but turning the heat OFF rather than just turning it down is a little too extreme to me. I could handle it if they burn renewable bamboo for heat rather than gas or coal. But to turn the heat off during near-freezing conditions: Wow!
     
  3. flareak

    flareak Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2004
    1,016
    20
    0
    Location:
    St Louis, MO
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    wait.. did I read that correctly? over 1 in 5 cars in Japan is a PRIUS?
     
  4. maggieddd

    maggieddd Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    2,090
    13
    0
    Location:
    Boston
    yeah, that doesn't seem right

    EDIT: I re-read that part and I think they mean low emission vehicles not just Prius
     
  5. flareak

    flareak Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2004
    1,016
    20
    0
    Location:
    St Louis, MO
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    i re-read it.. i think it says 1/5 is a hybrid like the Prius. which imo is still extremely impressive!
     
  6. fjef

    fjef Junior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2005
    94
    2
    0
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    Model:
    I
    Well I've lived in Japan for 18 years and I would suggest that the town of Kimiita in the story is about as representative of the country of Japan as a 1970's hippie commune would be of the USA.

    In most of Japan, heaters are on full power in both public and private buildings in winter and air conditioners on full all summer - it never seems comfortable in either season. When it is 36C (hot) outside in summer, it is common to see secretaries bring blankets to work to cover themselves from the air conditioner blast. I used to wear t-shirts in winter to deal with the office heat when I worked for a Japanese company.

    There have been government campaigns suggesting that these machines be turned down but I have not witnessed any real changes other than a token news story - I'm sure that the heat/ac went back on full as soon as the cameras left.

    One thing I do agree with is that the motivators for most Japanese energy conservation efforts are economic, not environmental. The cost of energy here is very high and going up. Manufacturers and the energy companies are talking green but in reality continue to gouge the consumer who does not complain like good consumers should. The consumer here is somehow satisfied in paying the highest prices in the world and having very little to show for it.

    I am working on importing an energy efficient house from Canada as after 2 years of research, I cannot find anything locally with proper insulation, ventilation etc. at anywhere near a reasonable cost. After importing, I will be paying about 40% of the cost of a similar sized - and much poorer quality - Japanese house and I will have a fraction of the utility costs. I am hoping that my neighbours and the local community take notice - Japan is the only country I know of where housing values decline from the minute your house is built and valued at close to 0 after 10 years.

    When sourcing solar energy systems, I learned that the newest offerings here no longer include energy storage systems - so you buy high in the evening and sell back low to the electric utility company during the day and the system payback is over 20 years - the companies win here every time. The consumer is impotent.

    It is also true that the Prius is very popular - its the best selling car in several prefectures and at well over $5.00US/gallon, it's no wonder. The highway tolls here are another huge expense for drivers - but with housing quality so poor and cities so crowded, for many people here - as a Japanese friend put it - the car is the 'nicest room in their house' and they don't mind paying for the luxury.

    Low emissions vehicles include the very popular 'K' cars here - small trucks and cars that have 660cc engines and lower road tax. I wouldn't want to be in an accident in one but they are great for tiny roads in the cities and villages.

    We do have the lowest prices for broadband internet in the world next to S. Korea - so it isn't all bad...

    Jef
     
  7. flareak

    flareak Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2004
    1,016
    20
    0
    Location:
    St Louis, MO
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    :( i would love to be in japan right now. got room for a roommate? ;)

    what city are you living in?
     
  8. fjef

    fjef Junior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2005
    94
    2
    0
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    Model:
    I

    After 14 years in Tokyo, we moved 100 kms due east - now on the Pacific coast of Chiba in a small village. The quality of life has improved since leaving the city so I think I will be here a few more years...

    Won't have any room for guests until the new house is built!

    Jef
     
  9. flareak

    flareak Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2004
    1,016
    20
    0
    Location:
    St Louis, MO
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    are you really building a house there? that's got to be insanely expensive! how much is this going to cost? (you can say in ¥)
     
  10. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    15,140
    611
    0
    Location:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    Vehicle:
    2013 Nissan LEAF
    Model:
    Persona
    speak for yourself, i have been practicing conservation measures for years. the average temperature of my house runs in the 60º range. sometimes as low as 55 at this time of year.

    now freezing like the article proclaims is probably not true. (dont believe everything you read) pipes freeze when the heat is completely removed. i have had other people confirm that many places set their temps to 55º

    i always thought pres. carter's methods were only half steps. but lets face it, he is the only president we have ever had that did one single thing.
     
  11. flareak

    flareak Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2004
    1,016
    20
    0
    Location:
    St Louis, MO
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    :( I liked lincoln
     
  12. fjef

    fjef Junior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2005
    94
    2
    0
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    Model:
    I
    By importing, I am saving a bundle and getting a much better quality home. I have been researching for 2 years and a local builder is now involved in the project who is offering to build for us at cost. He believes that the formula I have come up with will be attractive for the retirement boom in the area and my house will be a model.

    As I said, my costs will be about 40% of a similar-sized Japanese house which would run about 50 million yen for the house (not including the land).

    We did very well on the land by negotiating directly with a local farmer and avoiding real estate agents etc. It is possible to do things here at reasonable costs when you know which rules and customs you can get around...

    Jef
     
  13. flareak

    flareak Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2004
    1,016
    20
    0
    Location:
    St Louis, MO
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    so your house will only cost around 200k then?
     
  14. fjef

    fjef Junior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2005
    94
    2
    0
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    Model:
    I
    Yes - by dealing directly with a materials wholesaler in Canada and purchasing the materials only and avoiding the added costs of a housing company.

    I'll have to start charging for the rest of the formula!

    Jef
     
  15. M. Oiseau

    M. Oiseau 6sigma this

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2006
    270
    3
    0
    Location:
    Tulsa, OK
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Do you wear your winter coat in your house? Hat and gloves, too?

    If not, maybe you're naturally furry?
     
  16. flareak

    flareak Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2004
    1,016
    20
    0
    Location:
    St Louis, MO
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    maybe i'll build a house in Japan too :) now that it looks incredibly cheap. but how much space do you have and how much does the land cost? I heard that they count land by sq. cm
     
  17. andyprius

    andyprius Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2005
    2,212
    188
    0
    Location:
    Sacramento, California.
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    The Japanese people are to be commended for many of the things they do, they of course also do things for different reasons than we might. The economics of oil will drastically change in the near future, we just don't know when yet. And only conservation, or atomic power, or any form of green energy is not going to solve our OIL problem. We use oil in and on practically everything. What we really need is a method of making synthetic crude oil that will replace exactly, the oil from the ground. This may never come about. We will experience very high oil prices with industry fighting themselves, agricuture, entertainment, electronics, aircraft,autos; all will be competing economically for their share. To say nothing of China and India and all of S. America with their expanding populations and demands for oil. Until we or the Japanese or somebody gets serious and proposes a Manhatten Project, the future looks grim.
     
  18. fjef

    fjef Junior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2005
    94
    2
    0
    Location:
    Ontario, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2001 Prius
    Model:
    I
    There is a huge difference in land prices in the major cities and in the countryside. Flat land is expensive, hilly land is cheaper - you need to do a lot of looking. It took me a long time but I paid about 50% of market value for the land (the farmer who owns it is my wife's volleyball coach - connections are everything here!)

    Land is measured in tsubo - if you google it you'll find converters that will help confuse you more.

    Building a house cheaply in Japan is not easy - but it can be done if you have years to research and plan...

    Jef
     
  19. DaveinOlyWA

    DaveinOlyWA 3rd Time was Solariffic!!

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2004
    15,140
    611
    0
    Location:
    South Puget Sound, WA
    Vehicle:
    2013 Nissan LEAF
    Model:
    Persona

    no not really. i am wearing a hooded Seahawk sweatshirt. very heavy, sweats and "fuzzy feet". im very comfortable. it has been in the 20's here so i have the heat on, its 56.8º right now.

    i will admit, if i sit and watch tv or something i have a blanket on the couch i use. other than that, i am simply used to it. wasnt always this way and if one thinks they can just start doing what im doing without any adjustment, has a rude awakening coming.

    i had a house that i sold a while back and moved into my camper i had. the first week after it turned cold, the heater fritzed out. THAT winter, i wore my coat ALL the time. (was lucky to be able to take showers inside real house but still spent most of my time there.) i had a little portable heater jobbie that worked so-so until it got down below freezing and it blew the circuit breaker, so that idea didnt work all that well. i did it then not really by choice, but now i do do it by choice.

    and i do it for the same reason the Japanese do it... im CHEAP...that is why i bought the Prius. dont want to spend money on gas. paid cash for the car because i dont believe in paying someone else for the priviliage of borrowing their money.
     
  20. flareak

    flareak Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2004
    1,016
    20
    0
    Location:
    St Louis, MO
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    i am very jealous of you. if by perchance you go to a mall and go to a store called mother goose or something of that variation and you see baby seal stuffed animals with "hats" of other animals wrapped around it... BUY THEM ALLL. they are the cutest things ever! (send some to me while you're at it)

    btw, they are called shirotan

    you know if you made an online business selling those, i would buy at least three. so far the only place where you can get them is ebay and they only have 2 of the semi-big ones :(

    but really.. i think they would sell extremely well in the states. when my 3 friends and i went to japan last summer we all bought one and we didn't have very much money to spend..