July CR report on SUVs

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JackDodge @ Jun 13 2006, 01:02 PM) [snapback]270616[/snapback]</div>

Jack I dare you to drive an '07 Tahoe and then a Sequoia and give me your honest opinion. I have done just that at two ride and drives this year and there is no comparison...ride quality, power, fit and finish, gas mileage, you name it. I dare you and then reply to me.

 

I don't know if the Sequoia is that great anymore. It really is on an aging platform. I was not all that impressed with it when I drove it in 2001.

I have seen the new '07 GM SUVs and they are a big improvement over the previous edition.

I do laugh everytime I see one, because you have to wonder what is going through the person's mind. Do they think that I think that they are smarter? Cooler? Superior? Does anybody really see one go by on the road and think, wow, that's cool? My one thought is, "Hey idiot, you could have bought a used one for a song!"

To be fair, I'll have the same thought when I see people driving the new Sequoia, whenever that may be.

By the way, malorn, I rode in a Solstice the other day. Cool car. I don't actually fit on the driver's side, but most people do. GM needs more head-turners like this one.

Nate

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(naterprius @ Jun 13 2006, 02:40 PM) [snapback]270686[/snapback]</div>

Wow thanks for the complement. You might fit bette in the new G6 convertible.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(naterprius @ Jun 13 2006, 03:40 PM) [snapback]270686[/snapback]</div>

C'mon, that's not totally fair... For me it was just having a lot of space, and a nice high up ride... Nothing "cooler", nothing "superior", just like having a ton of room, and preferably, big leather seats. I mean c'mon, would you replace your big, space hogging, fluffy couch for fold-stools?

It's only a matter of time before I pitch out for that Escalade baby!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(malorn @ Jun 13 2006, 11:18 AM) [snapback]270629[/snapback]</div>

What will be more insteresting is to drive the same vehicles in 2012 again after 100k or so miles. What GM, etc seemingly does not get is that gadgets alone don't work for long term sales. They need to improve their long term reliability drastically. To get back on par in the eyes of consumers, it will require the big 3 to produce vehicles of substantially better quality than Toyota and Honda for at least 4-5 years.

Yet they keep making them bigger, heavier, with bigger engines and more dodads. Will see how that helps them when the new Tundra and following Sequoia comes out.

I just think that the big three has lost focus on the customer and conceded critical segments to other manufacturers, like family sedans and compact/midsize pickups.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bulldog @ Aug 5 2006, 02:47 AM) [snapback]298150[/snapback]</div>

Same with Toyota... the Prius is stuffed with gadgets, and how many "broken gloveboxes", "Rattling dash", "Failing brake" posts are there?

I think Toyota has a long way to go anymore.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Aug 5 2006, 08:50 AM) [snapback]298208[/snapback]</div>

Out of how many Prii sold?? Besides using forums to gauge reliability can be very tricky as a lot of folks join simply to resolve problems, thus just posting about those. Lets see how the Prii are doing after 100k miles.

The Prius is not exactly a model I would compare to SUVs. The 4R, Sequoia and Land Cruiser are build far more solid than the Prius.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(bulldog @ Aug 5 2006, 12:48 PM) [snapback]298229[/snapback]</div>

Probably more than not... hard plastic (which the Prius has a ton of) is a major contributor to squeaks.

My faveorite was the thread where someone found that if you took the dash apart and stuck a comb under the speedo, you could stop the dash rattle/squeaks. I'm sorry, but I guess I just find paying 26K for a car and then having to disassemble part of it, stick a comb into the guts, and then put it back together to enjoy a squeak free ride to be unacceptable.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Aug 5 2006, 10:05 AM) [snapback]298232[/snapback]</div>

That might be true, but vs diff, transmission and front suspension, etc failures on $50-60K H2s as an example. I am one of the folks that believe Toyota need to improve their quality, but GM still has a whole lot of work to be done. They need to beat Toyota's quality substantially, before market perception will change. However they choose to still lag in that department.

Instead they prefer to grab on any little thing that goes wrong with Toyota products, while they should be focussed on getting their own act together. It is sad, but I still think GM just doesn't get it. They seem to be sitting back waiting for Toyota to falter instead of taking the battle to Toyota, by aiming to be #1 in every single quality rating in every single class.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jonnycat26 @ Aug 5 2006, 08:50 AM) [snapback]298208[/snapback]</div>

I agree w/Bulldog in his statement that it's VERY hard to judge reliability by looking at forum posts.

As a former Nissan Maxima owner and a current 350Z owner, go take a look at http://forums.maxima.org/forumdisplay.php?f=10 and http://www.my350z.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=2. You'd think their cars were all POSes compared to the Prius. The Z sells in much smaller numbers than the Prius in the US and the Maxima also sells in smaller numbers so far this year than the Prius per http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/08/01/016751.html and http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/08/01/016769.html.

Common probs on the Z esp. 03s and 04s were the infamous front tire feathering/cupping issue (I experienced it) resulting in road roar esp. while braking, failing power window motors and regulators [both of mine failed], window grease streak [corrected by TSBs on 03s, fixed I think on all others], axle clicking [mine actually had the prob, I didn't realize it until the dealer diagnosed my noises as that; fix docuemented in TSB], and a lot of people have trouble w/the manual transmission grinding [some folks have gone thru several transmissions]. This is for a car that came out first in the 03 model year. There was a recall on fuel filler hoses leaking resulting in a possible fire. The fix was trivial except to getting to the hoses was HUGE job (see http://www.nissanhelp.com/Ownership/Bullet...6/NTB06-014.htm for details).

The aforementioned Maxima has a fairly decent reliability rating in Consumer Reports btw.

 

All I can say is that EVERYONE outside of typical ol' Consumer Reports loves that new GM trucks because of their quality. Buick, Mercury and Cadillac all stand above Toyota in J.D. Power's Long-Term Reliability study.

I can tell you from experience that GM vehicles are well-made, my family has owned them since the '30s. My father's last Suburban had over 265,000 miles on it and it still ran and drove great. He sold it to a guy that drives to Mexico twice a year to visit family and he has had nothing but compliments so far. My family's foreign car experiences have been few, some good, some bad, just like any other vehicle. My mother's 1988 Nissan Maxima wouldn't have won any quality awards with it's fuel injector problems and lots of assorted issues. It finally gave up at 125,000 miles and spun a rod bearing.

I can also say that my 2005 Chevrolet Silverado has zero rattles or squeaks at 12,000 miles whereas the Prius I rented with 4 miles on it was rattling and squeaking as I drove off the lot.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(AndrewGS @ Aug 13 2006, 10:26 PM) [snapback]302872[/snapback]</div>

I don't find JD Power's studies to be that credible and 3 years is not my idea of long term. I find Consumer Reports' reliability ratings to be generally pretty accurate.

I'd strongly disagree w/you about GM vehicles being well made from my parents having owned 3 of them. They now have Toyotas. The last GM vehicle we had was an 86 Olds Cutlass Ciera that we bought new... the problems I can think of it had off the top of my head before 60K [most before 50K miles] were:
- brake probs
- transmission fluid always leaked despite many attempts to have it fixed
- glove compartment mechanism plastic broke so you could never latch it closed
- sun visors would keep flopping down [similar sun visor probs in previous GM vehicles and the innards would break entirely]
- alignment probs
- rear shocks wore out causing rear tires to cup [I was still on the orig. rear shocks on my 91 Camry when I sold it after 90K miles]
- some bolts in the engine broke causing oil to mix w/coolant and car to almost overheat [uncle's identical car w/same engine suffered same prob before us]
- stereo would put out garbage/static out 1 speaker
- steering wheel developed cracks near the 2 spokes
- car would emit a high pitched noise when going straight or turning slightly to the left
- (2.5L) engine would knock/ping even w/premium on level ground
- engine also gave off weird gurgling sounds on acceleration

There were probably more probs that I can't remember now. The 4 cyl. Ciera from reliaibility ratings at the time was supposed to have slightly above avg. reliability BTW.

My dad then go into an accident and had it totalled. In contrast, my mom's 96 Camry which she still has (not many miles though, <65K) has had only 1 brake problem [I don't know the details] as far as I know. That's it.