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June Arctic Ice Extent Lowest in Satellite Data Record

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by drees, Jul 7, 2010.

  1. drees

    drees Senior Member

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    From Green Car Congress:

    Green Car Congress: June Arctic Ice Extent Lowest in Satellite Data Record


     
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  2. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    It's about time we made Arctic Ice pay for the damage it did to the Titanic. Let alone the ensuing 3 hours I had to sit through just to ultimately watch Leonardo Dicaprio turn into a popsicle. Glad to hear Artic Ice has finally figured out who's in charge here and is backing down.
     
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  3. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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    It's all cyclical.

    So far, all recorded large species that have ever "ruled" the Earth have been wiped out. Get in line.
     
  4. icarus

    icarus Senior Member

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    Follows what we have seen in the north, at least anecdotally.
     
  5. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    I'm guessing the New Youakaz stole the ice ... trying to cool their arses back down below the muggy 100's.

    :p

    .
     
  6. TimBikes

    TimBikes New Member

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    Yawn. I always love these totally predictable alarmist reports...you know, the kind that completely ignore any contrary evidence...like say, that the Antarctic ice sheet (which is substantially larger than the Arctic ice sheet) is at a record high:

    [​IMG]
     
  7. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    Contrary evidence? In you mind, is ice extent increasing over Antarctica contrary to ice extent decreasing over the Arctic?
     
  8. icarus

    icarus Senior Member

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    Tim,

    Simple question,,,

    What will it take for you to be convinced that AGW is real, it's consequences significant and it's solutions complicated?
     
  9. drees

    drees Senior Member

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    Wait - so you claim that the Antarctic ice sheet is growing, but then post an image that says that Antarctic sea ice extent is growing?

    Which is it? Both? One? Other? Neither? How 'bout some references? Otherwise you are just pulling numbers from who-knows-where.

    Just sayin' because my references[1] indicate that the Antarctic ice sheet is losing mass at at an accelerating rate - in particular, the western Antarctic ice sheet. The eastern Antarctic ice sheet has not shown any significant variation in mass.

    My references[2] also indicate that while the Antarctic sea-ice extent appears to be growing slightly (as your un-referenced image also indicates), it appears to be doing so because of a combination of factors:

    1. Ozone hold over the Antarctic which decreases stratosphere temps that increases winds pushing sea-ice around leaving more room for ice growth.
    2. Temps have risen in the southern seas - and while they have risen, they have not risen above the melting point of ice which increases moisture in the air and thus, precipitation (see record snowfall on the east coast this year for another example of how warmer temps can increase snowfall)
    3. As a result of the increased precipitation, this has reduced ocean circulation currents which normally bring warm water currents from deep under-sea to the surface, also reducing the rate of sea ice melt.

    [1] NASA - Is Antarctica Melting?
    [2] Is Antarctica losing or gaining ice?
     
  10. chogan2

    chogan2 Senior Member

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    Saying that antarctic sea ice extent cancels arctic is fundamentally wrong for two reasons.

    First, nobody predicts significant warming in the antarctic ... yet. Whereas the fastest warming is predicted for the arctic. It's been that way ever since Hansen's original modeling in the 1980s. Antarctic sea ice extent increases don't contradict the predictions of general circulation models showing global warming.

    Second, the risk is asymmetric: More ice in the antarctic won't make up for the loss of the summertime arctic ice cap. Essentially everyone who has operational responsibilities involving the arctic ocean (e.g., the US Navy) is planning on an ice-free summer arctic ocean no later than 2030. As the director of the National Ice and Snow Data center put it, the arctic ice is in a death spiral. The asymmetry is that growth in the antarctic sea ice will not offset the problems with no summer arctic icecap, mainly, the increased methane release from the (formerly) permafrost around the arctic basin, and from methane clathrate deposits on the ocean floor. Elimination of the arctic ice cap, by itself, in isolation, is a bad thing. Additional sea ice in the antarctic won't make up for that.

    There's a readable discussion on the differences between arctic and antarctic ice at the national snow and ice data center:

    Arctic Sea Ice News & Analysis

    That said, only one member of their expert panel predicted a new melt-season low for arctic ice extent. So while extent was low in June, their experts do not expect the minimum extent to fall below the 2007 record.
     
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  11. TimBikes

    TimBikes New Member

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    Cryosphere today:

    [​IMG]
     
  12. TimBikes

    TimBikes New Member

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  13. mojo

    mojo Senior Member

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  14. chogan2

    chogan2 Senior Member

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    Ice blown out of the region by Arctic winds can explain around one-third of the steep downward trend in sea ice extent in the region since 1979, the scientists say.




    The study does not question that global warming is also melting ice in the Arctic, but it could raise doubts about high-profile claims that the region has passed a climate "tipping point" that could see ice loss sharply accelerate in coming years.


    Wind contributing to Arctic sea ice loss, study finds | Environment | guardian.co.uk
     
  15. richard schumacher

    richard schumacher shortbus driver

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    Again someone who does not understand the distinction between extent (area) and mass (volume). Further, much Antarctic sea ice originates on the continent; when the sea ice extent increases it suggests that ice is sliding off the continent at an increased rate. Not necessarily a good thing, possibly a Very Bad thing. But pay it no mind; Glenn Beck is about to start.