1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

"just a goddamned piece of paper"

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by Jim1eye, Jul 19, 2006.

  1. Jim1eye

    Jim1eye Shaklee Ind Distributor

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2005
    181
    0
    0
    Location:
    Connecticut
    Vehicle:
    2022 Prius Prime
    Model:
    LE
    An alleged quote by GWB is "Stop throwing the Constitution in my face,†“It’s just a goddamned piece of paper!â€

    The quote is used extensively here in Fred's HOP. I've searched and searched the internet and I find Doug Thompson's Capital Hill Blue Rant in which he states "I've talked to three people present for the meeting that day and they all confirm that the President of the United States called the Constitution 'a goddamned piece of paper.' "

    Mr. Thompson does not name these three people. Every other internet writing I find on the subject either quotes Thompson, regurgitates Thompson, or is a reaction to Thompson.

    So...I'M CURIOUS.

    Has anyone actually come forward and admitted that they actually heard GWB call the Constitution “... just a goddamned piece of paper!â€

    I'm not interested in debating this, just looking for the facts. No hearsay please.

    Please leave a site reference if you can supply documentation.

    Thanks
     
  2. Wildkow

    Wildkow New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2006
    5,270
    37
    36
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jim1eye @ Jul 19 2006, 07:28 AM) [snapback]288640[/snapback]</div>

    It's about as believable as the "National Guard" papers put out by CBS. :lol: Notice no other mention about the meeting number of people there or other comment on the facts except those three unnamed people. Typical ploy used by either side as they deem necessary but IMO shows weakness and desperation.

    Wildkow
     
  3. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2005
    10,339
    14
    0
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Given the character of Bush, if any of those un-named people were actually named, they would soon be out of the job, out of the party and exiled to.....gee....Beirut? Bagdad?

    Sent on a hunting party with Dick Cheney?

    I'm not surprised no one has been named. I don't expect anyone will be named until at least 2009.
     
  4. IsrAmeriPrius

    IsrAmeriPrius Progressive Member

    Joined:
    May 27, 2004
    4,333
    7
    0
    Location:
    Southern California
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ Jul 19 2006, 03:02 PM) [snapback]288963[/snapback]</div>
    Which reminds me what one of the O.J. Simpson prosecutors told me, shortly after the the trial was over, about the LAPD: "They framed a guilty man."
     
  5. wstander

    wstander New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2005
    982
    1
    0
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Jul 19 2006, 03:11 PM) [snapback]288969[/snapback]</div>

    But did he actually say it?

    Can any one point to another source for corroboration?

    One of the problems with the web and blogging is that anyone can publish anything and if they write it well enough and loud enough, eventually it grows legs and gets recited everywhere.

    As it stand, there is ONE pundit that stated it in his website, with no corroboration or attribution.
     
  6. fshagan

    fshagan Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2005
    1,766
    4
    0
    Location:
    Noneofyourbusiness, CA
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(wstander @ Jul 19 2006, 04:00 PM) [snapback]288996[/snapback]</div>
    I suspect he did not, and given the purported facts of the meeting, it is out of character for him to do so.

    President's are often cited for their temper when people are not looking, and Bush is said to have yelled at subordinates in the past. But the purported quote supposedly happened in a meeting with members of Congress, and I doubt the President would lose his cool while "working the room".

    Bush also shows a respect for the power of the constitution with his support for constitutional amendments on issues dear to his heart. I think he's mistaken on those, but he obviously knows the impact the constitution has.

    So I think the quote fails the giggle test as to whether it actually exists. What you will find, though, is that people who hate him will say the quote accurately reflects his beliefs. I don't think so, and I think history will bear me out. I was surprised at how quickly history buffed up Reagan's "President Dumbell" image, so perhaps we'll see it in our lifetimes.
     
  7. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2005
    10,339
    14
    0
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Well, as in all things, you consider the reliability of the source.

    The measure of credibility is not whether the sources are anonymous- the measure of credibility is, has what they published in the past turned out to be correct, and do they strictly follow the rule that an anonymous source requires a confirming source, which is the general rule for publishing stories based on information provided by a confidential source who refuses to be identified. Or maybe there is a double standard for anonymous sources, depending on whether they flatter or criticize Bush?

    For what it’s worth, Capitol Hill Blue, not Drudge, was the 1st to break the Clinton/Lewinsky/impeachment story.

    Here is a piece from Progressive Review, Who is Doug Thompson? on Doug Thompson, editor of Capital Hill Blue. This may help settle the question of his credibility. There has yet to be anything posted that gives any reason to question Thompson’s credibility. Who is Doug Thompson?

    Now, you consider, does this quote sound reasonable? Could Bush have said it? Well, yes. He's said "goddamned" before. He's also....gestured. But forget the quote completely. Has he ACTED as if the quote were true? Yes. His behavior is also consistent with someone who would say such a thing.

    Don't forget what Bush said back on the 2000 campaign trail, "There oughta be limits to freedom."

    "If this were a dictatorship, it would be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator" -- George W. Bush, December 18, 2000

    I believe he said some interesting things to Tony Blair at the recent conference he was at when he thought the microphone was off. Could the quote be genuine? You bet.
     
  8. Wildkow

    Wildkow New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2006
    5,270
    37
    36
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Jul 19 2006, 03:11 PM) [snapback]288969[/snapback]</div>
    I think that the guy reporting it (he was there right?) could reveal names and solict comments. Yet I see none. None of the bigger right leaning media outlets have reported/commented on this have they? Just looks weak to me.

    Wildkow
     
  9. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    14,487
    1,518
    0
    Location:
    Spokane, WA
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    I think it's in character for him, considering his attitude toward individual rights, and his use of obscenity.
     
  10. Wildkow

    Wildkow New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2006
    5,270
    37
    36
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Godiva @ Jul 19 2006, 04:38 PM) [snapback]289027[/snapback]</div>
    Maybe true but I point out CBS news again. Up till the "National Guard" papers they were thought to be credible also.

    Hmmmm, because he's used swear words he's capable of denouncing the Constitution as a mere piece of paper? :blink: Weak. <_<

    A true quote as there has always been limits to freedom, they are called laws, contained in such documents as the Constitution, Bill of Rights etc. . . :D BTW the Constitution seems quite changeable as many Activist Judges have seen fit to legislate on their own ignoring years of precedent and other court rulings. So if GWB did say it and I'm not saying he did, he was probably thinking/referring to Activist Judges who treat the Constitution as if it were a piece of paper that they can interpret in any manner they wish.

    Wildkow

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Jul 19 2006, 06:04 PM) [snapback]289082[/snapback]</div>
    So I see now, Hmmmmm, anyone using obscenties believes that the Constitution is just a piece of paper? Goddamn Bastard's!

    Wildkow :lol: :wacko: :blink: :wacko: :blink: :lol:

    p.s. I kinda like his attitude towards individual rights especially my right to life and safety.
     
  11. wstander

    wstander New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2005
    982
    1
    0
    "The Rant
    Bush: Constitution 'just a goddamn piece of paper'
    By DOUG THOMPSON
    Dec 9, 2005, 05:51"

    Please note the publish date/time



    Now I find it hard to believe that more than 18 months AFTER Mr. Thompson published his story, that no one from the MSM (certainly not any great protectors of GWB) would not have examined and reported this further. Even Ms. Pelosi, also no great lover of GWB, is not recorded as noting this. Even Mr. Soros says nothing or is it even posted on moveon.org or someone else's favorite, the socialist workers site.

    We have been inundated with other stories of GWB alleged abuses, including his 'finger' and the latest 'expletive-deleted' comment off-guard, so why not this?

    Still, no one can quote a source other than Thompson for this comment, not even on Al-Jazeera or BBC. I could not find it on Islam.org, either.

    Anyone have a Lexus-Nexus account?
     
  12. airportkid

    airportkid Will Fly For Food

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2005
    2,191
    538
    0
    Location:
    San Francisco Bay Area CA
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    I'm sure the quote is not just genuine, but is a sentiment he's expressed explicitly many times, if never in public.

    But that aside, we're all missing the larger, much more relevant issue:

    Is Bush being Rove'd here?

    Just desserts: this kind of pie in the face couldn't happen to a more deserving bastard, who has flung whole bakeries of dung filled pies at those who dare oppose him, cooked up by his head s**t chef, Rove.

    Apologies if the explitive steps out of the bounds of forum decorum; I just wanted to be truthful and precise and no other word is as accurate.

    Mark Baird
    Alameda CA
     
  13. fshagan

    fshagan Senior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2005
    1,766
    4
    0
    Location:
    Noneofyourbusiness, CA
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Alice, don't look now, but we've just stepped through the looking glass again.

    A quote that cannot be substantiated by anyone other than a single journalist, who heard it from "three people present", is believed because it seems "in character" by people with an intense and irrational hatred of the person. Proof of it being "in character" is that the person has used profanity before, therefore it probably is true. And not only that, the PATRIOT ACT!

    Wait, Alice ... don't go down that rabbit hole! It gets better.

    Somehow, the President is now the Legislature, and is "to blame" for the Patriot Act. That proves he said it! Not only that, but if he didn't, he would have!

    Never mind that the Act was penned by the legislative branch, passed with all but one or two votes, and which has legislative oversight and that the legislature recently renewed certain provisions of it. You have to remember that when the oversight is exercised, those here in looking-glass land yell KARL ROVE! and everyone forgets the bi-partisan nature of protecting America in the post-9/11 world. Until the GENERAL election, when they will all say they would be better at it.

    It really doesn't matter if the quote is bogus, or even if its simply a true-life lie (as opposed to being incorrect, which is also a lie here in looking glass land). True truth, as in not true-life lies, doesn't matter anymore, because anything we read that reinforces our preconceived notions of reality as we would LIKE it to be is good enough. We just need to feed our heads the mantras more and more often, and we'll be just like them.

    If this is all too confusing, and makes your pretty head hurt, remember the immortal song:

    When logic and proportion
    Have fallen sloppy dead
    And the White Knight is talking backwards
    And the Red Queen's off with her head
    Remember what the Dormouse said:
    "Feed your Head
    Feed your Head!"
     
  14. mssmith95

    mssmith95 Michael

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2006
    535
    4
    0
    Location:
    Valencia, CA
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Premium
    I am definatley not a W supporter. However, these types of things get twisted every which way depending on who needs it.

    Would W have said something like this and actually meant it as a disrespect to the constitition? - Extrememly doubtful

    Could he have said this out of anger and had it taken out of context? Extremely Possible

    Will we ever truly know? Extremely Doubtful

    Does it really matter?

    Hopefully the authors of the Constitution understood that it would be subject to interpretation...and at some point maybe even be somewhat obsolete if not reviewed and modified for the times.

    I can only imagine how frustrating it would be to have to work within a million different interpretations...and all of the political BS that goes along with it.

    It just kills me that so much time is spent by both parties trying to discredit the other side...instead of actually doing their jobs and working for the people!
     
  15. Jim1eye

    Jim1eye Shaklee Ind Distributor

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2005
    181
    0
    0
    Location:
    Connecticut
    Vehicle:
    2022 Prius Prime
    Model:
    LE
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jim1eye @ Jul 19 2006, 10:28 AM) [snapback]288640[/snapback]</div>

    To Date:
    253 views, 13 responses, 0 substantiation.
     
  16. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2006
    21,597
    11,224
    0
    Location:
    eastern Pennsylvania
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ Jul 19 2006, 09:31 PM) [snapback]289092[/snapback]</div>
    The "limits of freedom" quote was in relation to the gwbush.com site.
    The story I heard at the time was that this enterprising fellow grabbed the gwbush.com domain in the hopes that he could sell it back to Bush. When that didn't happen, he turned it into a parody site.

    I don't have sound at this computer. So I wasn't able to really watch the clip, but it looked like the right one.

    http://www.rtmark.com/old/more/articles/bu...sh1bushsite.htm
    video clip

    Sorry, can't confirm the "peice of paper" quote, but this shows how it could gain legs.
     
  17. wstander

    wstander New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2005
    982
    1
    0
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jim1eye @ Jul 20 2006, 06:25 AM) [snapback]289310[/snapback]</div>

    Roger!

    Target outbound, evaluation unknown, non-valid, non-threat....


    All stations return to your normal Bush-bashing modes B)
     
  18. daniel

    daniel Cat Lovers Against the Bomb

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2004
    14,487
    1,518
    0
    Location:
    Spokane, WA
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wildkow @ Jul 19 2006, 06:31 PM) [snapback]289092[/snapback]</div>
    Silly cow! Not at all. Not "Because he uses obscenities he thinks the Constitution is just a piece of paper," but rather: Because he has a history of abusing and opposing constitutional rights, he appears to have no respect for the Constitution; and because he habitually uses obscenity it would be in character for him to interpolate the word "goddamn" into his statement about the Constitution.
     
  19. jtullos

    jtullos New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2006
    172
    0
    0
    Location:
    Dayton, NV
    While I wouldn't really expect him to think that, he may very well be thinking exactly that. But while he's not the brightest president we've had, he's not dumb enough to say something like that out loud (hopefully).
     
  20. Rancid13

    Rancid13 Cool Chick with a Black Prius

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2005
    2,452
    3
    0
    Location:
    Los Alamitos, Orange County, CA
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(wstander @ Jul 19 2006, 06:51 PM) [snapback]289109[/snapback]</div>
    Is my brain functioning normally? Should I be seeing something other than Dec 9, 2005 as the publish date? I don't think it's been "more than 18 months" since that date, it's been more like 7.5 months more like unless my counting is off. Or did that publish date of Dec 9, 2005 occur 18 months after the 'meeting' in which Bush is alleged to have said what he said about the Constitution? I'm confused.