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Just Another Fat Bloated Company Shaking Down the Little Guy (A Volt Story)

Discussion in 'Prius, Hybrid, EV and Alt-Fuel News' started by Octane, Mar 18, 2011.

  1. Octane

    Octane Proud Member of 100 MPG Club

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    Consumers Reject Chevy Volt
    Consumers Reject Chevy Volt | National Legal and Policy Center
    It was just about bailing out a sleezy company through a Marxist perversion of the capitalist system: privatize profit, socialize risk. Disgusting.

     
  2. bretaz

    bretaz Member

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    I never thought for even 1 sec. that the Volt, in its current form and price, would be anything other than a failure.
     
  3. derkraut

    derkraut Member

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    I've never driven the Volt, so I will not pass judgment just yet; but I'd much rather see a hoard of Volts commuting down the freeway instead of Hummers, Sequoias, F150's, et-al.

    BTW: My "long-range" vehicle is my 2006 Prius (lifetime 49.4mpg over 46K mi); and my "commuter car" will be the 2011 Nissan Leaf electric, which should arrive in May.
     
  4. Zhe Wiz

    Zhe Wiz Member

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    Yeah, but that wouldn't advance Octane's politically motivated crusade against GM. I'm not sure he posts anything unless its anti-Volt. I swear he loses sleep in search of his next Volt bashing web article to post on PriusChat. :) I find it entertaining at least. :D

    Zhe Wiz
     
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  5. Skoorbmax

    Skoorbmax Senior Member

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    Certainly. Poor people don't buy vehicles that cost $35k after subsidy. This is also the case for the Leaf and the subsidy that the PHV Prius will have.
     
  6. PriQ

    PriQ CT+iQ

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    Bad news for the Volt is bad news for those of us Prius fans who want Prius (and its many siblings) to continue to evolve towards a higher dependency on electrical power.

    I'm not pleased.
     
  7. The Electric Me

    The Electric Me Go Speed Go!

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    The thing you can never know, and I'm admittedly paranoid enough to harbor even casual thoughts along this line...is how much of Cheverolet really wants The Volt to fail?

    Outside of being a "green marketing" tool, a lot of the commentary I've heard from GM executives has suggested to me that they are pretty clueless about really producing and supporting a tangible alternative product.

    Until their attitude changes, I think any offering they make is at best going to be clumsy.

    I was hoping for the best for The Volt. And as a product I don't think it is static. But if it nosedives and fails? I wouldn't expect GM to make anything but press release admissions of disappointment.
     
  8. Octane

    Octane Proud Member of 100 MPG Club

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    A Prius with an aftermarket PHEV system is a marvelous thing. And, it's economical. The Volt would have been much better if it were as efficient with both electricity and gasoline as is the Prius.
     
  9. Octane

    Octane Proud Member of 100 MPG Club

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    Seriously, is it anything BUT political? It was all about bailing out a company too large to fail. A bloated company with lackluster engineering.

    Do you all remember GM's new "Spring Hill" attempt with the Saturn? Saturn was the way GM was going break from the stale management of the past, reinvent itself, and move into the 90s.. Where is Saturn now? Where are we as a nation now?

    It's enough that we pussy foot around and support GM when they don't deserve it by buying cars and trucks that simply aren't worthy. It's worse, when then have their hands in your pockets "socializing" risk with taxpayer monies. It's crony capitalism at its worst. The rich, stealing from the poor. It has no part in our society and economic system. Rich stealing from the poor is the lowest human behavior there is, other than stealing candy from babies, maybe. Compete or die. It's what we deal with daily. It's what the rich should deal with too, not withstanding John Rockefeller's infamous missive that "competition is a sin."

    Toyota has done a marvelous job AND great social good with their hybrid technology. Backyard mechanics and tinkerers have made it even better with the help of the Chinese (Enginer, specifically).

    GM could have looked at all this, gleaned every bit of know-how the Japanese put into the Prius and made it better. Is this what they did?

    No, the freaking morons didn't even consider that HEAT costs fuel or energy. A 25 mile winter car for $45k. It's unbelievable. How many of you have burned more that by getting lost or missing the exit on a turnpike? Idiot engineers.

    Get a damned golf cart if you want to wear a heavy jacket and gloves. They're cheaper.
     
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  10. Octane

    Octane Proud Member of 100 MPG Club

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    I've been running a modified Prius PHEV for the past year. I really considered the Volt as I wanted an engineered solution and not a backyard mechanic's solution. I was excited. It's a disappointment to find out that I did better than GM all for about $16K. It's just another broken promise from a mediocre company. I've had it with them. And they should reciprocate by staying the hell away from tax payer monies, whether through illegitimately gotten tax subsidies or outright bailouts.

    And, to the joker at the former GM facility in Fremont, CA who hung a dangling coke bottle with a note saying "suckers" behind the dashboard. Memories are long.
     
  11. KK6PD

    KK6PD _ . _ . / _ _ . _

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    It's already bloated as is. The dealers marking up the price $5k is truely pathetic! I hope it goes down in flames!!!
     
  12. Octane

    Octane Proud Member of 100 MPG Club

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    Just picture the mindset of the shyster who thought this was a good idea. Oh, he knew he had something so valuable that he could take almost all of the federal tax subsidy for his own greedy self.

    I'm a die hard capitalist. They can ask what they want BUT they should suffer when the marketplace smacks them down. Enough of this socializing risk, BS.
     
  13. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    Isn't this about the bailout and not the volt? Wth. Do you think the volt cost $50B instead of the $0.5B that has been reported on the volt. It was about too big too fail and corporate welfare. Saving jobs. Many that voted for the bailout wanted to kill the volt in restructuring. The volt did get some environmental dems to join some union dems to vote for the bailout. How is the entire thing on the volt. They should have let gm die, but it was too big to fail. Where is the call to end the government creation of oil subsidies which make the tiny portion of money to the volt and leaf and electrification look like chump change.

    I don't think he is the only one.

    But that is not what the article was bashing. An aftermarket prius conversion voids your warenty and if you look at depreciation and price it will cost more than a volt if you want to run it on a gen III and not a old car. The use of electric as just over that of the leaf. How is that in efficient. Oh yeah you are just pyling on crap, because your rant belongs in freds house of pancakes. Ok. Done now, I'm sure the political will think I am a troll and keep heaping on the garbage.
     
  14. Octane

    Octane Proud Member of 100 MPG Club

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    You need to keep the spittle off your screen, calm down and formulate a more articulate bashing. (I don't even get where you are going with the Leaf comment.)

    I wish the world were as compartmentalized as you'd like it to be where there's only one consideration for any circumstance. It's not.

    Had GM not completely lied about the Volt's specifications (200+ mile range on battery, etc.,), had the range performance not been such a letdown *(25 mile winter car when fully charged AND on a brand spanking new battery pack), had the engineers better engineered the Volt by taking into account simple things like heat, for example, had GM done this on their own without socializing the risk trough taxpayer/Chinese funded subsidies and bailouts, had GM not a 50 year track record of contempt for consumers, had the unions not been so outrageous, had they not been an arm of the democratic reelection machine, the Volt may have been palatable, nay, even desirable.

    And, this article IS news on the Volt. The Volt is a pure political animal. Nothing more than that.
     
  15. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Wiz ... it's funny you should say (ostensibly light hearted) that Octane is kind of "over the top", regarding the Volt's down side(s). I too was just considering a post similar to yours ... but the "loses sleep" humor couldn't be topped. But on the flip side:

    Octane - thank you for the enlightening articles. There are a few members that tend to WAY focus on one topic, which ultimately tends to reduce credibility sometimes. There's a Volt fanatic (or two) on the "Leaf" board who really LOVES to compare it, to the Leaf EV. To give balance, I simply look for your posts. ;)

    Surprisingly, several LEAF fans come to the ANTI Leaf/Pro Volt person's rescue ... in effect, writing "oh ... such negativity does not accomplish anything". Strange? Yep ... but there you go ... something to consider.

    .
     
  16. Octane

    Octane Proud Member of 100 MPG Club

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    I call it the way see it. Regarding the Leaf, other than that damnable polar bear commercial, I really don't harbor much feeling about it at all. But, I think it makes my point. If Nissan fails with it due to either overstating range effectiveness or with power system engineering that just doesn't meet the market's expectations, well kudos to Nissan for trying and hopefully they'll learn something and improve upon it.

    GM is a totally different issue. If the Volt doesn't meet the market's expectations, well, GM has their hands in our pockets. And I feel every bit as strongly about the crony capitalism of bailing out AIG or Bear Sterns, or which ever "competition is a sin" bankster wants to rob the American taxpayer blind. Plus, when it's your own family, so to speak, your expectations of high integrity and high performance are part of the equation.

    GM has been a let down for as long as I can remember starting back when I was a kid and they tried a diesel Cadillac through the Saturn years to the original GM so-called hybrid and EV1 years.

    Enough with this company and their bloviating. As I said, they should just extract their hands from our pockets and either turn themselves around or die.
     
  17. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Let 'em die? ... along with the thousand and thousand and thousand of employees? ... and thousands and thousands of suppliers? Ahh . . . if only life truly were so black and white. You see the leaves ... and yet you fail to even notice that there's a giant forest all around you.

    GM's horrible mess is a gnat, compared to the military's trillion dollar waste. At least when GM spends a hundred million in tax dollars, you get SOMETHING for it. And although their product may be junkie ... it has value that gets amortized over many years of usefulness. BUT ... if you train a bunch of soldiers ... or build batches of missiles/rocket/bombs ... what do you got, after they get blown up? NOTHING ... except now you gotta spend more trillions ... and you gotta keep doing it.

    Yes - the gnats may bug you ... but there are elephants out there ready to trample you. Priorities, my friend ... priorities.
     
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  18. Octane

    Octane Proud Member of 100 MPG Club

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    And thus we continue down the time worn path of central planning, de facto government ownership over the means of production, legendary Soviet inefficiencies and non competitiveness.

    I'm a capitalist, not a Marxist. Somebody else is just waiting for the state sanctioned behemoth to get out of the way and make room for something better. Competition is good. Ford is a better company than GM because of it. It's right there... the elephant. See?
     
  19. austingreen

    austingreen Senior Member

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    No spittle, and I didn't quite get to your strange high levels of hyperbole, just trying a simulation. If the big rub on the volt is government subsidies, the leaf and volt both get the same $7500 per car. The Leaf actually gets a bigger subsidy than the volt for battery manufacturing. They also are similarly thrifty on electric efficiency .34kw/mile on the leaf, .36 kw/mile volt on the epa.

    Just letting you know the facts. I can understand being mad about the bailout, I am. It happened. Most money was spent on the volt before the bailout. The volt was not the reason gm went bankrupt. You seem to have a poor grasp of the facts.

    All this was known before the bailout. It is not as if these were lies told to get the money. CR design critism was also leveled against the prius, this is new technology. The NYT editorial your slam piece references states this clearly, and is mainly mad gm is not selling the volt at a loss to get volume up like toyota did. And no it was about the bailout, not really about the volt at all.

    from the editorial
     
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  20. Octane

    Octane Proud Member of 100 MPG Club

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    Trying a simulation? You are really obtuse. Further, do you actually have a grasp of the meaning of "hyperbole?" I have not overstated anything. Anyway...

    1. The Volt should not be entitled to the subsidy as it is a plug in hybrid vehicle not an all electric vehicle. This is completely fraudulent. Chevy Volt: The Car From Atlas Shrugged Motors - Forbes.com

    Lies WERE told to get the money. It's not an EV it's a plug in hybrid. The Leaf is an EV, however. Further, the Leaf did not receive the bailout monies described in (2). Those are the facts. Be honest; your poor grasp of the facts notwithstanding.

    2. This isn't the only subsidy the Volt received. From the article, it got some portion of the $50 billion bailout, $240 MM DOE grants, $150MM to the battery manf and "some significant portion of the $14 billion retooling loan in 2008.

    As you said, Obama didn't kill the Volt. He changed the CEO. He could have killed the Volt. He didn't. Nobody did.

    Crony capitalism producing the performance of a Soviet economy; The Volt is the one summary statement which wraps it all up into a concise point.