Just how stupid is junior ?

EricGo · Jan 16, 2007

I have a calendar called 'George W. Bushisms'. Every day I'll add one bushism to this thread, and copy it to this post. Why bother ? I read the other day on PC neo-cons who thought junior is actually a pretty smart guy. I give them a dose of reality, and the rest of us an embarrassed laugh . OTOH, 50% of repubs on exit polls from the last presidential election thought that Shussein was behind 9/11, and that WMD were found in Iraq, so I might end up with a thread of neo-cons wondering what is so pathetic.

2/19/2004: "Recession means that people's incomes, at the employer level, are going down, basically, relative to costs, people are getting laid off"

1/29/2000: "Will the highways on the internet become more few ?"

5/3/2003, Crawford TX: "We ended the rule of one of history's worst tyrants, and in so doing, we not only freed the American people, we made our own people more secure"

DC 3/5/2001: "I think there is some methodology in my travels"

1/23/2006: "He was a state sponsor of terror. In other words, the government had decided, you are a state sponsor of terror"

Mystery Squid · Jan 16, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(EricGo @ Jan 16 2007, 07:28 PM) [snapback]376480[/snapback]</div>

2/19/2004: "Recession means that people's incomes, at the employer level, are going down, basically, relative to costs, people are getting laid off"
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JackDodge · Jan 16, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(EricGo @ Jan 16 2007, 05:28 PM) [snapback]376480[/snapback]</div>

2/19/2004: "Recession means that people's incomes, at the employer level, are going down, basically, relative to costs, people are getting laid off"
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Definitely the Yogi Berra of presidents. A real eskimo piehead. :lol:

Godiva · Jan 16, 2007

#17. When I employ people as advisors, I will occasionally listen to their advice.

#37. If my trusted lieutenant tells me my Legions of Terror are losing a battle, I will believe him. After all, he's my trusted lieutenant.

Evil Overlord's List

He can't even get being an Evil Overlord right.

dragonfly · Jan 16, 2007

How stupid is a country that elected they guy, even after the disastrous first term his party cheated him into? I don't blame him so much as I blame our citizens who don't value our country enough or else are too stupid to change channels once in a while and find out what's really going on. No wonder our dear leader has no interest in improving our educational system.

Beryl Octet · Jan 16, 2007

EricGo · Jan 17, 2007

Doberman et al, arguing about the economy, and junior's role in it's state of affairs --

I like short tangents as much as the next person, but this thread is about bushisms. I suggest you start a new thread to continue your arguments.

--- Jack,
I find your advice so contrary to my own thinking, that I have to comment a bit. I just took out a 100k HEL at 5.99% for 20 years on my paid-off house. This was done first and foremost as a tax dodge related to deductions and the AMT; secondly, because it is pretty cheap margin money for investments, and third, as a hedge against an inflationary future.

I scanned the contract, and will have to read it closely regarding the bank's ability to recall the loan; but AFAIK, that would only be possible if at all in an extreme situation such as corporate BK. And in any case, until that happened, why not enjoy the low interest rate ?

JackDodge · Jan 17, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(EricGo @ Jan 17 2007, 03:30 AM) [snapback]377039[/snapback]</div>

Doberman et al, arguing about the economy, and junior's role in it's state of affairs --

I like short tangents as much as the next person, but this thread is about bushisms. I suggest you start a new thread to continue your arguments.
--- Jack,
I find your advice so contrary to my own thinking, that I have to comment a bit. I just took out a 100k HEL at 5.99% for 20 years on my paid-off house. This was done first and foremost as a tax dodge related to deductions and the AMT; secondly, because it is pretty cheap margin money for investments, and third, as a hedge against an inflationary future.

I scanned the contract, and will have to read it closely regarding the bank's ability to recall the loan; but AFAIK, that would only be possible if at all in an extreme situation such as corporate BK. And in any case, until that happened, why not enjoy the low interest rate ?
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You're a winner, Eric. Too bad all of the people getting hammered by ARMs resetting to a higher rate and going to lose their homes can't say the same, eh?

EricGo · Jan 17, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(JackDodge @ Jan 17 2007, 06:27 AM) [snapback]377069[/snapback]</div>

You're a winner, Eric. Too bad all of the people getting hammered by ARMs resetting to a higher rate and going to lose their homes can't say the same, eh?
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It's unfortunate when people live beyond their means, and do not take into account the reasonable possibilities of recession or stagflation futures, or something as common as unexpected expenses. It is unfortunate that people take out an ADJUSTABLE RATE mortgage, and do not ask what the rate might adjust to, and then consider if they are willing and able to take on the risk and load of the higher interest rate. Have you ever looked at the terms of an ARM ? I have, and it does not take a lawyer, economist, or genius to understand the offer. There is a fuzzy grey area in which people should be allowed to make their own choices, even if most would consider them ill-advised; vs predatory practices or scams that society disallows as criminal or of no inherent value. ARM's have been around a long time, and are a reasonable, valued debt tool for the right person. I'll readilly add my opinion that the large increase in their use in the last couple of years was to the wrong people, but that is here nor there.

As for the people that entered into variable rate home mortgages as a speculative venture: well, as in gambling some win, some lose, and the house (or broker/lender) skims off from the top, leaving a net zero game. I accept (through long observation) that greed for easy money is very alluring, but I will not be in line to help the losers off the hook.

Are your familiar with HYIP scams ? One I read up on after it exploded was 12dailypro.com. I was most fascinated by reading multiple complaints by the victims objecting to having the scam shut down by the feds. They felt that it was their right to participate in the 'venture', regardless of the feds opinion that it was a scam. These same people promised to join any future ventures the organizer might develop.

If you would like to continue this discussion in PM, I'm happy to do so. In this thread I'll just leave it that I am very happy with my loan, expect that many other people benefit from theirs as well; now, and in a diverse set of future economies, but that ymmv and an ARM, although it might be a smart move for some, is probably not for most. Oh yeahh, credit card debt is usually a bad move, too.

SomervillePrius · Jan 17, 2007

Thank you Beryl that put a smile on my morning

FBear · Jan 17, 2007

Sad, isn't when a man that has basically trashed every business that he was a part of is president of the U.S. not for just four years but the public elects him for an additional four years.

dbermanmd · Jan 17, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(EricGo @ Jan 16 2007, 05:28 PM) [snapback]376480[/snapback]</div>

2/19/2004: "Recession means that people's incomes, at the employer level, are going down, basically, relative to costs, people are getting laid off"
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I would like to see your guys opinions of our current economic condition if you would. You might want to reference todays WSJ editorial page for a quick synopsis.

JackDodge · Jan 17, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(FBear @ Jan 17 2007, 08:51 AM) [snapback]376719[/snapback]</div>

Sad, isn't when a man that has basically trashed every business that he was a part of is president of the U.S. not for just four years but the public elects him for an additional four years.
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You can fool some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time and that's all that it takes to get in to and stay in the White House. In the 2004 election, 125,737,000 voted. Of those, only 50.73% voted for Bush. In 2004, there were 142,072,000 registered voters. That means that 16,335,000 registered voters did not vote. Bush won 286 electoral votes and Kerry won 252. If we presume that Bush is stupid, it is perhaps also true that at least 62,000,000 people in this country (not counting the ones who were registered to vote but chose not to) are just as stupid, if not more so. Or, at least they're gullible and easily manipulated.

livelychick · Jan 17, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Jan 17 2007, 08:52 AM) [snapback]376720[/snapback]</div>

I would like to see your guys opinions of our current economic condition if you would. You might want to reference todays WSJ editorial page for a quick synopsis.
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Here you go. Forget the WSJ; I'm going straight to the source...

http://www.treas.gov/tic/mfh.txt

For a quick synopsis, it looks like we have sold our souls to China, "Oil Exporters" (read=Saudi Arabia), and Japan.

I think our economic situation sucks, and we are dangerously close to falling off the precipice.

Oh wait...here's more...

http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdpdodt.htm

Ya know, I'm pretty well-educated and intelligent, but these numbers are so macrocosmic that it sickens me.

Oh wait...I forgot about interest payments!

http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdint.htm

To call our economy good is to come from the Enron/Tyco school of accounting

EricGo · Jan 17, 2007

qotd, from 1/29/2000 in Concord, NH

"Will the highways on the internet become more few ?"

Beryl Octet · Jan 17, 2007

I liked the way he answers this question on resolving conflicts between Native American tribes and the Federal Government.

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/bush-bs.html

dbermanmd · Jan 17, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Jan 17 2007, 09:26 AM) [snapback]376734[/snapback]</div>

Here you go. Forget the WSJ; I'm going straight to the source...

http://www.treas.gov/tic/mfh.txt

For a quick synopsis, it looks like we have sold our souls to China, "Oil Exporters" (read=Saudi Arabia), and Japan.

I think our economic situation sucks, and we are dangerously close to falling off the precipice.

Oh wait...here's more...

http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdpdodt.htm

Ya know, I'm pretty well-educated and intelligent, but these numbers are so macrocosmic that it sickens me.
Oh wait...I forgot about interest payments!

http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdint.htm

To call our economy good is to come from the Enron/Tyco school of accounting
[/b]
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What is your definition of a bad economy?

dbermanmd · Jan 17, 2007

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(livelychick @ Jan 17 2007, 09:26 AM) [snapback]376734[/snapback]</div>

Here you go. Forget the WSJ; I'm going straight to the source...

http://www.treas.gov/tic/mfh.txt

For a quick synopsis, it looks like we have sold our souls to China, "Oil Exporters" (read=Saudi Arabia), and Japan.

I think our economic situation sucks, and we are dangerously close to falling off the precipice.

Oh wait...here's more...

http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdpdodt.htm

Ya know, I'm pretty well-educated and intelligent, but these numbers are so macrocosmic that it sickens me.
Oh wait...I forgot about interest payments!

http://www.publicdebt.treas.gov/opd/opdint.htm

To call our economy good is to come from the Enron/Tyco school of accounting
[/b]
Click to expand...

How would you define the EU's economic status? They have 60% more people than we have and we have the same GDP. They have 10% unemployment - we have 4.6% -- is that bad or good. Their growth rates are 1% or so - we are 2.5%+ -- is that bad or good. Our budget deficit continues to shrink - I think down 16% last year with further dropping expected this year - is that bad or good?

How in your own words is our economy so bad? My thought is that President Bush is not getting enough credit for a good economy. Here in Gotham we are getting a tax cut with a budget surpluss of over $1 Billion - it has taken us that long to recover from 9/11 - but we are back ---- and the steel is being laid for the new Freedom Tower as we communicate -- took way toooo long to get that building back up.

Anyhow - interested in how in your own words see this current economy is so bad. BTW - the stock markets dont agree with you - not even close -- are the stock markets that wrong too???

eagle33199 · Jan 17, 2007

What about the exchange rate? Since Juniors been in office, the dollar has fallen:
it used to be >1.2 euros per dollar, now it's under 0.7 - a change of almost 50%.
It used to be 0.7 pounds per dollar, now it's 0.51 - a change of almost 30%.
It used to be 1.6 canadian dollars per dollar, now it's 1.15 - a change of almost 30%.
It used to be 31 Rubles per dollar, now it's 26 - a difference of 16%.
It used to be 1.7 Francs per dollar, now it's 1.2 - a difference of almost 30%.

So it's now more expensive to buy foreign goods... tell me, how can you say the economy is doing well? We're in a global world now - success can't be measured only by looking at local values like unemployment or GDP. Success instead should include measures of foreign desire for the local currency and goods, and under bush that has plummeted.

Beryl Octet · Jan 17, 2007

Warning signs. Debt can only go so far...

http://www.dailyreckoning.co.uk/article/160120073.html

An estimated $300 billion of consumer spending has already disappeared in the United States, as that is roughly the reported drop in housing loan equity withdrawal lately. If you think that the American economy is so powerful and so dynamic that it can ignore a drop of $300 billion in final consumption, then I want to ask what kind of medicine your doctor has you on, because, brother, I need some of that kind of pharmaceutical "you'll believe any silly crap" horsepower right about now!

...

He further says, "We are experiencing a monthly cash flow pattern that implies consumer debt service levels have become too high," which means to me that nobody has enough money to make the monthly payments on anything new, because every drop of income is being used to service the existing debt...[/b]
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http://www.ft.com/cms/s/996a25fe-a401-11db...00779e2340.html

The amount of debt carrying the highest risk of default is rising as a proportion of the junk bond market, prompting fears the next cycle of corporate failures could be more severe than the last.

In the US, nearly 16 per cent of bonds are rated CCC or below; up from about 13.5 per cent at the end of 2005, as measured by the Merrill Lynch high-yield index. [/b]
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Just how stupid is junior ?

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