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Just noticed class action filed for bulb burnout problem

Discussion in 'Gen 3 Prius Main Forum' started by tak1313, Mar 1, 2017.

  1. tak1313

    tak1313 Member

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    So I am researching options, as I have been experiencing the dreaded bulb burnout problem. One thing I am trying now is the Philips H11 bulb. I have been replacing with Sylvania because that is the ONLY brand I seem to be able to find here. I noticed that the Philips bulb is rated for about 100 more hours than Sylvania. We'll see on that experiment.

    Anyway, I know about the harness retrofit thingy with the TSB, and while searching about the TSB (I have a copy, but wanted to see if there is any interesting information about it), I found that someone in CA filed a class action about it.

    Google: "3:16-cv-07212-LB"

    The pdf of it is on courthouse news. It was filed on 12/16/16.

    As an aside, if the Philips burns out (it probably will), instead of getting the "kit" from Toyota, which appears to be just a length of wire to add some resistance and drop the voltage (approx. 0.12 ohms from what I gather), I would just build a dongle/extension using H11 connectors, and plug it between the original harness and the bulb to drop the voltage. This would avoid the cutting/splicing of the factory harness, and allow for easy conversion back to original form should the class action come to fruition.

    For me, HID conversion is not worth it. I have no issue (personally) with the current bulb set up, plus with the car (2010) being 7 years old now, I PERSONALLY don't feel like putting that effort/money in. In the past, whenever I've done stuff like that to my cars at such an age, I end up getting rid of it soon after. As I get older, I get stingier, I guess...
     
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  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    is this the car fire concern issue?
     
  3. tak1313

    tak1313 Member

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    No - it's the issue where the low beam bulbs (usually left side) have an extraordinarily short life span. The 'fix,' found in the TSB is to splice a long piece of wire into the harness at the bulb connector. It adds a small amount of resistance to drop the voltage, presumably because the circuit sends too high a voltage to the bulb, which causes the premature failure. I'm not sure if there are spikes, or if it is a constant over voltage - I'm too lazy to set up a monitoring circuit.

    The fire issue, from my limited knowledge, usually initiates specifically in the front passenger side of the engine compartment. I don't think it is known exactly why it happens, but my understanding is that it is very rare when you look at the overall number of Prius on the road. I think there is suspicion (by lay people - not Toyota) that it MAY have something to do with the lights.

    There is a long thread here that gets into it as well.
     
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  4. Maarten28

    Maarten28 Active Member

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    I doubt there are spikes over the 12V circuit. The thing is that the Prius keeps the circuit at 14.8V, which is a bit high. Usually you would not want to go higher than 14.4V for lead-acid batteries.
     
  5. tak1313

    tak1313 Member

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    I was figuring constant over voltage was the more likely (vs spikes), but didn't want to make a "blanket" statement, as I never tested it because I'm too lazy, and regardless of the reason between the two, it's an over voltage.

    What is interesting (to me), is that there is a prevalence for the burnouts to happen on the driver's (left) side - not to say people haven't had problems on the passenger (right) side. One would think the over voltage would occur on both sides, which is why I was speculating it may be spikes of some kind which only or usually occur in the driver's side circuit for some reason.

    Maybe one of these days I'll hook my oscilloscope up to see exactly what is going on...
     
  6. Former Member 68813

    Former Member 68813 Senior Member

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    Do you have lights on all the time? There is a speculation of voltage spikes on start-up only.
     
  7. tak1313

    tak1313 Member

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    No, I only turn it on when needed - and only after the car has started. If my curiosity exceeds my laziness one of these days, I'll probably hook up my oscilloscope to see exactly what is going on. A standard meter can't really react fast enough to see spikes with any reliability.
     
  8. Former Member 68813

    Former Member 68813 Senior Member

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    please keep us posted. i guess only some cars are effected. I had mine for over 6 years and 84000 miles and no single bulb burned.
     
  9. tak1313

    tak1313 Member

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    I will post here if/when the Philips bulbs burn out. One reason that I wanted to try just the bulb first is that I noticed a lot of the complaints mentioned they used Sylvania bulbs - which makes sense, since they are MUCH more readily available, and for many like me, the ONLY brand locally available. It's the brand Walmart carries, as well as all parts stores around here.

    When I looked at the Philips, I noticed it was 'rated' for400 hours, whereas the Sylvania is rated for 270.

    The interesting thing about the burnout problem is for many (that I've read) the problem didn't start happening UNTIL they had to replace the bulb. Prior to the burnout problem, a lot of people were on the original bulb, and the original bulb lasted many years. My original factory bulb burnt out circa 70K or 80K too, and it's been burnout after burnout since (on Sylvanias).

    I also noticed the Philips packaging CLAIMS to be "the choice of all major car manufacturers." So it makes me wonder if they are the OEM supplier. Of course, that phrase could be construed in many ways, and may just be marketing hype - it's not like it says "OEM supplier for all major car manufacturers," or something like that.

    We'll see...
     
  10. Former Member 68813

    Former Member 68813 Senior Member

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    I guess the OEM bulbs are long life and the aftermarket replacements are short life. Makes sense as each party wants to maximize profits. Bulbs are covered by toyota's 3 year warranty BTW.
     
  11. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    Most auto parts stores have the "extra brightness" "premium" bulbs displayed most prominently at eye level, with the standard ones somewhere down by your ankles. The extra-brights are already built with a trade-off of longevity for brightness (essentially, by having a slightly lower design voltage); there's a steep inverse relationship. Combine that with the steady, somewhat higher voltage in a Prius, and those "premium" product offerings especially will not impress with their lifespan.

    -Chap
     
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  12. xliderider

    xliderider Senior Member

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    Say what? I find that hard to believe.
     
  13. Former Member 68813

    Former Member 68813 Senior Member

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    Would you believe if you found it in writing in your warranty booklet?
     
  14. szgabor

    szgabor Active Member

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    Not exactly... I do not see 14.8V at all more like 13.8-13.6V is there but only while the 12V battery needs charging after that it is dropped somewhere 12.8 ors so .. for me it takes about 35-40 minutes driving to this to happen. So I guess this issue may occure more for those who drive shorter distances.

    Where and how did you see 14.8V ?
     
  15. xliderider

    xliderider Senior Member

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    I can measure 14.4v at the jump terminal in the fuse box when the DC to DC inverter is online (Ready mode).
     
  16. kc410

    kc410 Active Member

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    I will quote below what I said in this post...
    Auxilary battery voltage? Does the Prius do 2 stage charging? | PriusChat

    My non-PiP does drop the 12V batt float voltage to ~13.4V, but only if certain conditions are met:
    1) the engine must be warmed up enough to shut off when stopped.
    2) the transmission must be in Drive.
    3) the AC must be off.
    4) the lights must be off.
    When (& only when) these 4 things are satisfied, will the float voltage drop to ~13.4V.
    Otherwise the battery floats at ~14.4V.

    Watching Torque I knew that the voltage would often drop to 13.4V, but had never tried to document under what conditions it would happen. This morning I watched it closely & came up with the above results.
     
  17. Maarten28

    Maarten28 Active Member

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    I see 14.8 all the time with car in ready mode (except from the first few seconds) with any voltmeter that I have.
     
  18. Former Member 68813

    Former Member 68813 Senior Member

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    I think the problem is with quality of multimeters. I just measured using 2 different ones. Cheap one from HF showed 14.64v, another high end showed 14.71v at the same time. Maybe it's not pure DC?
     
  19. szgabor

    szgabor Active Member

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    I verified over the weekend yes I also can measure 14.7 on the jump point. I was using the numbers scangauge was showing coming from the computer(s) . At the same time scangague was showing 13.8V... not sure where the ODBC measures it ... of course I had to do this in park and when in park the voltage is always high but the scangauge would show 12.5-12.7V after 30-40 minutes drive. Guess when the battery is charged.

    Maybe I will try to measure the voltage on the battery itself, it was just dam cold over the weekend to unpack the hatch to gain access to the battery itself.
     
  20. Former Member 68813

    Former Member 68813 Senior Member

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    Of course this is from ECU. Probably fused and switched or maybe even stabilized.

    I measured mine at the jump post, I'm fairly sure battery wouldn't be different.