LA DWP rate options for EV owners

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by eddiesudz, Apr 5, 2012.

  1. eddiesudz

    eddiesudz Junior Member

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    I know that there has been discussion on the charger rebates but I found some info on the LADWP website regarding us folks who will be using the standard charger that came with the PIP.

    Here's a LINK to the information for you DWP customers.

    I filled out the online application two days ago, got a call from them this morning and they will be sending out a new Time Of Use meter that will allow me to receive the EV discount.

    Might want to check it out!
     
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  2. SKrueger

    SKrueger New Member

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    Looked at the rates and I think the whole house Time of Use meter would end up costing me a lot more. The daytime peak rates are more than double the non Time of Use rate and the off peak is less than 1/2 cent less than the non Time of Use. Even the 2.5 discount for EV would not offset my higher daytime charges.
     
  3. eddiesudz

    eddiesudz Junior Member

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    I initially thought the same.... We visited some friends in Arizona who were on a whole house TOU meter plan. The claimed to have save a good chunk of change. That made me really look at our power usage. No one is home during the daytime. As long as your main draws of power occur after 5 pm and really if you can push it to 8 pm you will save $$$$.

    I've been on the TOU plan for quite a while now and I remember receiving my first bill..... Saved almost $90.00 compared to non-TOU billing.

    I've got solar panels now. I generate power and feed the grid at the most expensive time during the day then draw the power down at the cheaper end of the spectrum. For me it will be worth it....
     
  4. Priuskat

    Priuskat Junior Member

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    I previously called SCE Edison to see if they had program for Plug In's - I was told no. Going through old emails that I had received from Nissan when I was looking at the Leaf and found this email - just got off phone with SCE Edison and they are going to do an analysis on cost of charging.

    SCE - Electric Cars
     
  5. frankbiele

    frankbiele Junior Member

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    -So you had a whole house TOU installed as a part of the DWP Level 2 Charger Rebate? Is there a separate meter installed for your solar roof, if so how does that affect the cost of the installation? Also, what kind of monthly bills were you receiving prior to the solar upgrade (from the looks of it you must have had over a $200 (say $250) bill a month to get a $90 discount????

    I am waiting on my PiP and am trying to line up the level 2 charger now, assumed the $2k LADWP Discount was the best way to go until I saw that the TOU meter would allow them to ding us when we used the level 2 charger during the day (when we most likely would benefit from it...defeats the premise of the quickcharger doesn't it (read=LADWP doesn't want you charging your car during the day).

    Correct me if I am wrong, but the TOU changes all of that IF you have photovoltaic on the roof. The photovoltaic runs the meter backwards during the day, theoretically even when you might be using the level 2 charger???? Then, when the sun goes down, after 7pm or maybe later in the summer, you start taking, and getting charged from the grid?

    Without the TOU your meter would just run backwards right? So IF you sized your roof photovoltaic correctly it would seem that you would want to NOT have the TOU. We would eventually like to install photovoltaic on the roof, so by going this route, and sizing the output correctly there should not be any real advantage to getting a TOU???? Correct me if I am wrong please!

    All of this is pushing me toward putting in a permitted 20amp, dedicated 240v socket for the $250 ($300 for the upgrade) EVSE Upgrade or similar cheap system and installing it all on my lonesome (no DWP Rebate)
     
  6. eddiesudz

    eddiesudz Junior Member

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    Hi Frank.... let me see if I can address your questions one by one...

    So you had a whole house TOU installed as a part of the DWP Level 2 Charger Rebate? Is there a separate meter installed for your solar roof, if so how does that affect the cost of the installation?
    I already had a TOU meter prior to the solar install. The TOU meter did not affect any part of the solar panel install
    Also, what kind of monthly bills were you receiving prior to the solar upgrade (from the looks of it you must have had over a $200 (say $250) bill a month to get a $90 discount????
    My DWP bill was in the $500+ range per month. Since we draw down our power in the NON peak hours this plan made alot of sense for us.
    I am waiting on my PiP and am trying to line up the level 2 charger now, assumed the $2k LADWP Discount was the best way to go until I saw that the TOU meter would allow them to ding us when we used the level 2 charger during the day (when we most likely would benefit from it...defeats the premise of the quickcharger doesn't it (read=LADWP doesn't want you charging your car during the day).

    Correct me if I am wrong, but the TOU changes all of that IF you have photovoltaic on the roof. The photovoltaic runs the meter backwards during the day, theoretically even when you might be using the level 2 charger???? Then, when the sun goes down, after 7pm or maybe later in the summer, you start taking, and getting charged from the grid?

    Without the TOU your meter would just run backwards right? So IF you sized your roof photovoltaic correctly it would seem that you would want to NOT have the TOU. We would eventually like to install photovoltaic on the roof, so by going this route, and sizing the output correctly there should not be any real advantage to getting a TOU???? Correct me if I am wrong please!
    Ok.... let's see if I can make sense of all this as I'm not a TOU expert by any means..... If I have any of this info incorrect then please forgive my lack of TOU information.

    Since I'm on the TOU plan then I am generating power that causes the meter to run backwards during the most expensive part of the day. So.... if you are using a Level 2 charger during the day as long as the meter is running backwards then you should be a-ok..... Then.... at night when we're drawing our power from the grid we are charged a lower per kw rate. I have my timer set to start charging my PIP at 8:30 pm.

    Remember TOU is exactly what it stands for Time Of Use. You are billed for the rate of electricity based on the TIME that you USE it. Since most of our energy consumption is off Peak we save a good chunk of $$$$. Hope this makes sense.
    All of this is pushing me toward putting in a permitted 20amp, dedicated 240v socket for the $250 ($300 for the upgrade) EVSE Upgrade or similar cheap system and installing it all on my lonesome (no DWP Rebate)
    Sounds good to me if that is what will work best for you.

    As of now I'm happy with my current setup and I can't wait to see what my DWP bill looks like once my EV discount is applied!

    Here is what I decided to sign up for...... Option 2(DWP Website info)
    When you switch to an electric vehicle you can expect your energy consumption and cost to change. LADWP offers four service options for residential customers who have an EV.

    There are two levels of home chargers available to EV owners: Level 1 chargers and Level 2 chargers. More information on the two levels of home charges is available on the EV Rates, Meter Options, and Home Chargers Fact Sheet.
    Option 1: Electric Vehicle Time-of-Use Rate

    If you expect to charge your EV primarily at night and on weekends, you may consider installing a second meter in your house dedicated to the EV charger that will be billed on our Residential Time-of-Use Rate. Your regular house meter and electrical panel will remain unchanged. Under this option, you may receive substantial savings, including the EV discount of 2.5 cents per kilowatt hours (kWh) on top of already reduced rates for off-peak energy consumption. The EV discount applies to off-peak hours for up to 500 kWh per month. Through this option, you will also qualify for the Residential Electric Vehicle Home Charger Rebate. You can get a rebate of up to $2,000 toward the cost of charging equipment and installation.

    Under the Time-of-Use Rate, customers enjoy the lowest rates during off-peak hours, second lowest during low-peak hours, and highest during high-peak hours, as follows:
    • Off-Peak Hours: 8 p.m. – 10 a.m. weekdays and all day on weekends (receive EV discount of 2.5 cents/kWh for up to 500 kWh)
    • Low-Peak Hours: 10 a.m. - 1 p.m.; 5 p.m. – 8 p.m. weekdays
    • High-Peak Hours: 1 p.m. – 5 p.m. weekdays
    Customers who opt to use Level 1 chargers can simply plug in to a dedicated standard outlet and begin charging.
    For the current Residential Time-of-Use Rate, click here .
    Option 2: Residential Time-of-Use and Electric Vehicle Discount

    Residential customers who are on the Residential Time-of-Use Rate for their entire household, including the EV charger, can receive the EV discount of 2.5 cents per kWh for up to 500 kWh of off-peak energy use. As described above, the Time-of-Use rates are based on when the electricity is used, unlike the standard rate that varies according to how much energy is used. This option is most suited for customers who already consume most of their energy during off-peak hours—on weeknights or anytime on weekends. Customers who elect this rate option may receive substantial savings if they charge their EV and use most of their household electricity during these off-peak hours.
    For the current Residential Time-of-Use Rate, click here .
     
  7. eddiesudz

    eddiesudz Junior Member

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    Sorry.... I actually went for Option 4 not 2

    Option 4: Add EV Discount to Existing Time-of-Use Service

    I already have a time-of-use meter for my residence. I want the electric vehicle discount rate.
     
  8. frankbiele

    frankbiele Junior Member

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    I appreciate your response. Thank you!

    We have decided to go with a whole house TOU since the PiP will only use 200kwh per billing cycle (max benefite is 500kwh, which can only be achieved through a TOU, as long as most power consumer June-Sept is after 5pm (after 8pm is best, so put on your dishwasher/washer/etc. after 8pm if you can or do it on the weekend).

    Total cost for the electrical install (60ft of line for the 204v level 2 Schneider Electric Level 2 charger ($730 at Home Depot with a 10% discount card) is approx $1800 (so I am using most of the available LADWP EV Charge up LA $2k rebate.

    We will see how the first year goes with the hole house TOU meter, but it s/b ok, esp after we get photovoltaic on the roof (in a year or two)!
     
  9. eddiesudz

    eddiesudz Junior Member

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    Excellent Frank! Glad the setup should work for you! I have my charger set to charge after 8PM. Everything is working as planned so far....

    Let's see if the summer months change anything. Shouldn't but this will be our first season of having both TOU and PV panels on the roof... Have my fingers crossed.

    Please report back once you receive your first bill......

    Good Luck!
     
  10. cwerdna

    cwerdna Senior Member

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    $500/month is insane (if that's for electricity alone and insane if it's gas + electricity outside of winter), IMHO. Is this a huge house w/lots of people?

    In the thread at http://priuschat.com/forums/toyota-prius-plug-in/107153-electric-bill-up-20-120-145-a-3.html, I was indirectly criticized for using 317 kwh in a given month for a 5 bedroom 2500 sq ft. house. This is well below the average for similar homes in my area and even below "efficient" homes in my area. It also was below my allotted baseline.

    That month (2/14/12 thru 3/14/12), the gas portion of the bill was $35.77 and electricity was $40.72, not including taxes. Total w/tax and all was $83.93. I have no PV and am on PG&E's E-1 schedule (Pacific Gas & Electric - Tariffs) which isn't TOU based. From http://www.pge.com/myhome/customerservice/financialassistance/medicalbaseline/understand/, I'm in area X, so my baselines for electricity are 11 kwh/day for summer, 11.7 kwh/day for winter. For gas it's 0.62 therms/day for summer and 2.05 for winter.

    BTW, the unit you're trying to install is an EVSE (Electric Vehicle Supply Equipment). The charger is inside your car.
     
  11. Michael R

    Michael R New Member

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    Can you please share with me:

    1. How much does the TOU meter from DWP cost and its installation? (Could be in private message if you prefer)
    2. Did it require a city inspector to come on premise and check your installation too?
    3. How long did it take to receive the rebate?

    Your input is greatly appreciate and will possibly affect my decision getting an EV or Plug-in car.

    Thanks

    Michael
     
  12. frankbiele

    frankbiele Junior Member

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    Michael.

    See Responses above. Regardless of whether you get the discount or not from LADWP plan on spending 1-2 months to install and have the level 2 charger working....the guy next door to me works for Honda and he says on average their team takes at least 1 month to install for the customer.
    So-Do you need a Level2? For the PiP probably not, so that means you might as well get the $2k from the city, and make sure you can live with the TOU meter for your home (most energy is consumed after 8pm during the summer(June-Sept)).

    Also, make sure IF you are just using 110V to charge (the brick as members on this board call it) it is a dedicated circuit, and or do not have anything else on for that circuit (I have a 1930's home, with semi updated wiring, with too many things on the breaker I was using...I ended up melting the wire (somewhere).

    Frank
     
  13. frankbiele

    frankbiele Junior Member

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    First bill has finally arrived. TOU billing looks OK so far, but no 2.5 cent/kWh EV discount on 500kWh of my base bill (off peak)! I will call LADWP and re-post when I have more information. In the end my electric bill s/b approximately $5 less than without the TOU meter (assuming they apply the EV discount correctly, otherwise I am paying $7.50 more per billing cycle (2 months) on 1023 TOTAL kWh used ).
     
  14. eddiesudz

    eddiesudz Junior Member

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    Hi Frank.... I would follow up with them on the EV discount. SInce I've got PV panels on the house I get a very detailed 4-5 page reconciliation with my bill and my EV discount has a separate line item.

    Are you being ultra conservative during the high peak periods during the day? I shut down as much as possible and it seems to have made a huge difference.

    Loving my panels.... have about 250.00 in credits with DWP for electricity. Hopefully if all goes well I should owe them zero dollars for this entire year!
     
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