Leaving the headlights on

there's a fundamental difference here.

you're talking about wearing out a bulb, which costs about $300. yeah, still not cheap but you're the one who bought a car with HIDs.

this other guy's talking about an entire assembly and computer, and it sounds like it's all being arbitrarily replaced for a quick fix because it's under warranty.

no need to worry, that is NOT the common situation.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Starman @ Nov 7 2006, 08:09 PM) [snapback]345217[/snapback]</div>

I thought the $2000 cost was for the whole assembly, that would have to be a pretty serious bulb for $2000. Do you have HID's? Regular halogen bulbs are about $10 to $20, HID bulbs are in the $100 range. HID's are typically good for a few thousand hours compared to 500-1000 for halogens.

 

I have Regular halogen lights and leave them on all the time. Replaced the right bulb at about 25,000 and the left at about 34,000. Under $20 and about 20 minutes each.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Starman @ Nov 7 2006, 10:09 PM) [snapback]345217[/snapback]</div>

How do you think it will effect the lifespan of the headlights? Any type of light has a limited number of rated hours. I personally would not use them during daylight hours unless driving on a two lane road. You say you do this for safety but, doesn't the car already have daytime running lights for safety?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rest @ Nov 7 2006, 07:09 PM) [snapback]345247[/snapback]</div>

Only if you bought it in Canada.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rest @ Nov 7 2006, 08:09 PM) [snapback]345247[/snapback]</div>

HID headlights reportedly have a much longer life span (~10 times as long) than traditional halogens.
They put less drain on the battery and, of course, they're considerably brighter. Cost seems to be the only real downside.

 

I'm the "other guy", and now that I have the car back, I can contribute a little more information...

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(seftonm @ Nov 7 2006, 06:20 PM) [snapback]345221[/snapback]</div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(seftonm @ Nov 7 2006, 06:20 PM) [snapback]345221[/snapback]</div>

Actually, one HID bulb costs 3 times more than $100, or $304.14 to be exact for a Prius.


<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(seftonm @ Nov 7 2006, 06:20 PM) [snapback]345221[/snapback]</div>

As it turned out, the entire headlight assembly (lens, reflector, housing, et al) did NOT have to be replaced after all, despite what the Service Writer told my wife. Part of the problem with the entire cost estimate, and my reaction to this exhorbitant cost estimate, seems to have its roots in the Service Writer's verbal representations to us, both in person, and over the phone.

I will amend my other thread accordingly, but know that it is not necessary to replace the housing in order to replace the bulb. It may be necessary to REMOVE the housing, and the bumper, air deflector, grille, and whatever else, but not replace. The same bugs that were on my housing when I dropped off the car, were their to greet me when I picked it up five days later after the headlight was fixed.

However, what they also replaced to fix the headlight was a "headlight ECU" or a "computer sub assy"... according to the Service Writer, this item had a parts cost alone in exess of $400.00, but I'm not sure if which ECU he was referring to at that point, the ECU they did replace, or the other ECU they decided not to replace. Until I see what the actual cost for part #81107-47150 that was replaced on my car in writing, I won't know. I can no longer value the Service Writer's verbal representations as fact.



<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(seftonm @ Nov 7 2006, 06:20 PM) [snapback]345221[/snapback]</div>

I beleive our headlight started to fail within the first 7 months of ownership. The mileage was between 20K and 25K. Even if the vehicle had it's headlights on for that entire 25K miles, never mind the fact that most of those miles were put on multi-lane Interstates during the daylight hours, during the long days of summer out in the sunny west, but for the sake of argument assuming they were on all the time, and, assuming an average overal speed of 50mph for this mostly 65mph freeway driven car, we find that one HID lamp in our Prius could not have had more than 500 hours on it prior to intermittantly failing.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tideland Prius @ Nov 8 2006, 02:36 PM) [snapback]345691[/snapback]</div>

That's funny, because isn't turning the headlights on and off three times in quick succession part of how you bring up the diagnostic screen on the MFD?

I did it once just to see the diag screen; I guess I shouldn't have... :huh:

 

Thanks to "in the field" experiences posted here on PriusChat, my HID's [new Prius due in a few days] will *NOT* be used for daytime running lights. It's got to be logical that due to the hi-voltage 'kick' needed to start the HIDs, frequent ON/OFF cycles would reduce the life of the bulb and perhaps other components of the system.

I have frequently "cussed" HIDs from approaching cars at night - their being either poorly adjusted or not dimmed by that motorist. I just hope my Prius levelling system stays functional and does not blind oncoming traffic. Actually, I would have been happy with the Halogens, but HIDs come with the package I want.

It's interesting to me that the HIDs are a very sophisticated expression of the carbon arc lights used in movie theater projectors when I was a teen and my dad managed a theater. The carbon 'posts' were long and larger than a pencil and 'burned up' in producing the extremely brilliant blue-white light. The BIG transformers needed to produce the DC current to run those projector lights produced quite a hum. To 'start' those lights, you actually 'touched' the positive and negative carbon 'posts' to strike the arc and backed them off to sustain the light. The 'posts' were gradually moved mechanically to maintain the gap, thus sustaining the light. "We've come a long way, baby!" Fortunately, the HIDs excite the gas in the bulb and don't burn out quickly.

 

I don't own a Prius so most of the information I provided was accumulated online, not at a dealer. I see D4R bulbs in the 80 to 100 EUR range which is about $105-$130 USD.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(cbs4 @ Nov 8 2006, 01:31 PM) [snapback]345687[/snapback]</div>

That sounds more like a wiring than bulb issue. 500 hours is extremely low for a bulb to fail, if it was actually the bulb then I hope your case is the exception. The bulb life information I got was from Philips and it gave a B3 life (when 3% of bulbs will need replacement) of 1500 hours.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rest @ Nov 7 2006, 10:09 PM) [snapback]345247[/snapback]</div>

In the US, the Prius doesn't have daytime running lights. That's why some people, including me, use the feature of having the headlights switched 'on' all the time, as a substitute for daytime running lights.

Of course, that's a personal choice. My old car was totalled in April when I pulled out to cross a road at a dangerous intersection in my neighborhood, and I believe if the other car had had daytime running lights, I would have seen it coming - it was one of those silver/gray cars that can be darned hard to see in the early morning light.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(cbs4 @ Nov 8 2006, 01:31 PM) [snapback]345687[/snapback]</div>

As you clearly stated, they not only replaced the bulb, but also the computer controlling the bulb - likely because there was something wrong with the computer, which in turn led to a decrease in lifespan of the bulb - imagine putting an extra 10-20% voltage across the bulb at all times due to a computer glitch... i think that would cause it to burn out quite a bit faster than normal.

It simply isn't fair to the car, the technology, or to Toyota to blame the failure on the bulb, or even make the calculations that it only lasted for X number of hours.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jeannie @ Nov 8 2006, 05:01 PM) [snapback]345768[/snapback]</div>

Ummm yes they do. Daytime running lights are not headlights in the U.S., they are the yellow running lights. All vehicles except pickup trucks are required to have these brighter than normal yellow running lights as daytime running lights.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rest @ Nov 8 2006, 04:24 PM) [snapback]345792[/snapback]</div>

Unless something has changed since December 2005, this info is incorrect. Per the Insurance Instititute for Highway Safety,

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rest @ Nov 8 2006, 01:24 PM) [snapback]345792[/snapback]</div>

Can someone post a picture of where these "brighter than normal yellow running lights as daytime running lights" are on a Prius?

Your post seems to suggest that the parking lights get brighter as Daytime running lights, but page 111 of my 2006 Prius Owner's Manual states:

"Daytime Running Light System"

"The headlights turn on at reduced intensity when the parking brake is released with the hybrid system started, even with the light switch in the "OFF" position.

To turn on the other exterior lights and intstrument panel lights, twist the knob to the position 1.

To turn off the daytime running light system, twist the knob th the position 2 or position 3 with the headlights on or turn the hybrid system off."

 

This is very strange! I wondered what the non-Toyota price of a HID bulb would be. So I used Google to search and came up with a D4R bulb and a 9007 bulb. I couldn't find a price for a D4R but a 9007 was quoted at $449 per pair.

Most of the sites I was directed to wouldn't even list a HID bulb. Perhaps they read my address automatically and assumed I wanted a bulb for a Canadian car.

 

I wonder if it's still illegal to use the old 'parking lights' that were/are standard on cars here in california. I recall taking the driving test some 9 years back that they were illegal back then. Perhaps it's changed, hope I don't have to take the written test again.

ss

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(cbs4 @ Nov 8 2006, 01:48 PM) [snapback]345813[/snapback]</div>

They did not print a separate Owners Manual for the Canadian Prius. The US Prius does not have DRL. Parking lights are parking lights not DRL.