Lexus EV conspiracy theories

Discussion in 'EV (Electric Vehicle) Discussion' started by hkmb, Sep 6, 2021.

  1. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Efficiency isn't going to help if you don't have the range to get where you are going. Then the grippier tires the UX might need will likely reduce its efficiency.

    Now, 150+ miles is plenty for daily use, but it likely means many will need to install a Level 2 EVSE. I would with my 60 mile round trip commute. While over 200 miles can put off getting the faster EVSE, even if Level 1 doesn't fully replenish a days use overnight.

    Not familiar with working in pounds, but the price difference seems fair. You are getting AWD, better performance, and longer range with the Volvo's higher price. It starts at $55,300 with 208 mile EPA range in the US. I might find the seats alone worth the extra cost.
     
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  2. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Maybe they have to seriously limit EV R&D, due to funneling tons of all their dough into hydrogen highway's dead end?
    just a guess
    ;)
    .
     
  3. hkmb

    hkmb Senior Member

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    I completely agree. I just thought I'd mention it since John was saying it might be Toyota's focus. But it does seem kind of pointless with so little battery capacity.

    Yes, the Volvo seems like much better value than the Lexus. And that's extraordinary, because the Volvo looks like terrible value compared to German, American and Korean competition.

    I agree with you on the seats. Volvo seats really are lovely.
     
  4. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Whoever was driving the Volvo did better than the EPA 85mpge with 92mpge. The UX returned 105mpge. If that driver was besting the EPA, to UX will have a poor showing on the EPA.
     
  5. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    There are more than one thread here on PC over the past couple decades,bof others that have installed, giving step by step, how to change out the prius seats to Volvo seats - keeping the airbags intact and all
    [​IMG]

    .
     
  6. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Following another mental tangent, I came across an interesting LFP factiod. I didn't think it worthy of an all new thread, and this seemed the best fit.

    Remember the Coda EV? Product of an American and Chinese partnership. One of the first BEVs on the US market in 2012. Only a 117 were sold in California.

    It used LFP batteries.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coda_(electric_car)
     
  7. nancytheprius

    nancytheprius Member

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    I am guessing the lexus doesn't have the skateboard battery design. If that assumption is right, then down the line won't it be a lot cheaper to replace? Replacing a Tesla battery and other similar designs gets into the tens of thousands. i do not know anything about the mentioned lexus battery, but this is what I was thinking when reading thru everything
     
  8. dbstoo

    dbstoo Active Member

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    The cost of removing / replacing the battery is small compared to the cost of buying new batteries that are custom designed for the cooling system of the car. The custom designs include cooling, battery management (software and hardware) and battery cell matching. While the skateboard design MIGHT allow quicker battery change, cost savings are not realized unless the car is built with the requisite quick disconnects and ability to lift the body off the frame.

    When Tesla reaches the stage where the batteries are integrated into the structure of the car the replacement costs are liable to go up since each battery pack will only be usable in one spot of a specific model of the car. An example of that would be if the batteries were integrated into something like the seat support framework.
     
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  9. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Part of the high price with Tesla is because it is a Tesla; put Porsche on a Bosch part box, and price jumps. The other factor is there is a more limited supply source.

    Parts can be designed to be easily replaced, or not. A skate board pack doesn't automatically make it harder. The early Model S and X had swappable packs that could be replaced in 90 secs.
     
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  10. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    If you want to stir "conspiracy theories", you make comments just like that without providing any data or context hoping those reading it won't bother to do any research themselves. There are many simply following online commentary who fit that profile. The just accept a claim made at face value. Know your audience.

    Targeting Lexus customers means appealing to someone with a decent amount of disposable money they would like to take advantage of. Leasing a UX300e could be quite a draw. A person interested in that would be aware of CHAdeMO availability. I took the time to do some research. Turns out, there are far more CHAdeMO. Who cares about the growing favor for CCS when you are only going to have the vehicle for a few years.

    In the meantime, Toyota gets priceless real-world data... which is far more valuable than losing money on a limited build vehicle. After all, low-volume is more in the nature of Lexus offerings anyway. Being able to leverage that data for refinement of the interface for bZ4X prior to rollout is priceless. Heck, that even gives Toyota some opportunity to push a few software tweaks out. All of that is taking place away from enthusiast rhetoric. Think about how little we have heard about the BEV models of Izoa/C-HR.

    It is an approach we know well. Toyota rolls out tech in a subtle manner to prepare for high-volume. It's like the first hybrid upgrade to a two-speed system. Barely anyone noticed that Camry got it, then Prius. That's because few were paying attention or even knew about Camry hybrid back then. So when it came time to go all-out with the next-gen Prius, it featured a two-speed system that had already been given a thorough shakeout.

    Think about how important it is for Toyota to deliver a well-refined "bZ" vehicle right out the gate. After all, naysayers have now been shown the 4 additional "bZ" vehicles already in the works. No matter what happens with UX300e, it can simply be written off as shortcomings of CHAdeMO. After all, most people don't bother to check what they read. Know your audience.
     
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  11. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Wait - I thought the Toyota IQ EV was created so people would hate electric cars & then Toyota could push hydrogen more effectively because even hydrogen would look good next to the IQ

    .
     
  12. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Too bad no one else got the memo, and torpedoed Toyota's plan before the iQ EV went on sale.
     
  13. hkmb

    hkmb Senior Member

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    Surely this is just a conspiracy theory from IQAnon?
     
  14. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    John wrote above - that this next EV iteration that Lexus is coming out with (mediocre range, high price Etc) is just a test. but wasn't the IQ's failure enough of a crummy car market test? Why would Toyota need to fail in a larger vehicle segment. Just being rhetorical.
    .
     
  15. hkmb

    hkmb Senior Member

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    But Toyota is, as John said, just gathering customer data. I don't know that much about the IQ - it never made it to Australia - but in the case of the UX300e, the critical data being gathered is the answer to the question, "Will people pay a lot of money for a terrible car when cheaper alternatives are available that are better by every possible metric?"

    I don't know why they don't just ask Alfa Romeo. They've got loads of data on that.
     
  16. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    The answer with the iQ EV was no. Its EPA range was under 50 miles, and the price was going to be around that of the the other short, but much longer, ranged BEVs of the time. Toyota axed it before sales started here, and those that were made went to ride share programs. Luckily for them, they had the Rav4 EV provided by Tesla for ZEV compliance.

    Perhaps the UX300e is Toyota's attempt at making their own Rav4 EV.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_RAV4_EV#Second_generation_(2012)
     
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  17. hkmb

    hkmb Senior Member

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    Was the iQ EV the same shape as the ICE iQ, like Grumpy Cabbie had? I can't imagine one of those turning up if I ordered an Uber.

    I don't think I'd ever heard of the RAV 4 EV. Thanks for the education there.
     
  18. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Used the wrong term there. Meant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carsharing

    "The first 30 units were delivered in the U.S. to the University of California, Irvine in March 2013 for use in its Zero Emission Vehicle-Network Enabled Transport (ZEV-NET) carsharing fleet. Since 2002 the ZEV-NET program has been serving the transport needs of the Irvine community with all-electric vehicles for the critical last mile of commutes from the Irvine train station to the UC campus and local business offices.[9] In September 2013, another 30 units were allocated to City Carshare to operate Dash, a three-year pilot carsharing program in Hacienda Business Park, in Pleasanton, California.[29]"
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_iQ#Toyota_eQ/Scion_iQ_EV
     
  19. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    Same look.
    Screenshot_20220103-090115.jpg

    We used to see them at the train station, Irvine California. The ZevNet group that got iq-EV's was out of UCI & was a bogus organization run by the University. It wasn't the only messed up system at UCI. For example - the UCI medical school fertility clinic had tons of red headed kids - proven to all be from one of the heads of the medical university. Beware when UCI med school knocks you out to fertilize your eggs. The fertilization method was not what these women signed up for. There were plenty of other horrible wrong doings with u c i medical facilities. Big lawsuits:
    13th Lawsuit Filed Against UC Irvine in Fertility Scandal - Los Angeles Times

    The guy in charge of ZevNet was a huge fan of hydrogen. It had nothing to do with businesses near the train station. We proved that up by trying to sign up our company.
    .
     
    #79 hill, Jan 3, 2022
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2022
  20. Trollbait

    Trollbait It's a D&D thing

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    Thus why he wanted the iQ EV;)

    IIRC, even the ICE version was overpriced in the US.
     
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