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light green wire for always-on 12V

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Audio and Electronics' started by darelldd, Feb 23, 2006.

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  1. darelldd

    darelldd Prius is our Gas Guzzler

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    Howdy -

    Coastaletech suggests tapping the light green wire under the dash for 12V always on. I just added a third outlet that I'll power continuously, and am searching for the best hot wire to use. Anybody know what that light green wire normally powers? Sure is skinny!

    Here's where it comes from:
    http://coastaletech.com/Fuse%20Panel%20Connections.JPG

    Thanks in advance. The giant hole I drilled for the extra outlet came out really nice, fortunately. :)
     
    #1 darelldd, Feb 23, 2006
  2. hobbit

    hobbit Senior Member

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    That's all that gets powered from the light green wire. The power
    outlet. The coastal kit simply bypasses that wire to the white wire
    to the + side of the power outlet itself. What that routes around
    is the power outlet relay, which unfortunately is buried waaaaaay up
    front under the dash panel. So you should be able to safely hang
    your new outlet off the same green wire, up to the total 15A fuse
    limit of that circuit of course.
    .
    When I did my instrument cluster, I made it so that its separate
    power switch comes from that same connection, and then has a lead
    back out to enable the power-outlet relay coil [via jumper block
    J21, which is near the steering column]. That way the original
    wiring between power supply and outlet isn't messed with or run
    through my panel [which only has fairly low-current wiring run to
    it]. That coil connection is actually the only *change* made to
    the car's wiring harness -- had to cut one grey lead and insert a
    diode, so this hack doesn't back-power the rest of the ACC circuits
    through the same connection. So it's a "switchable always-on"
    power outlet now, if that makes sense...
    .
    If you haven't raided TIS for the schematics/manuals yet, you'll
    probably want to real soon. It sucks, but once you have it your
    projects will be so much easier...
    .
    _H*
     
    #2 hobbit, Feb 23, 2006
  3. darelldd

    darelldd Prius is our Gas Guzzler

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    Thanks Hobbit -

    I'm not reading something right though. First off, the Coastal kit *jumpers* (not bypasses) those wires, making them connected. I'm just tapping into it and dragging it over for my secondary outlet. You say that nothing is powered by that green wire normally, until you add a jumper to it? Why the heck is it there if it doesn't normally power anything? I'm looking for what it powers in the car before I touch it.

    Yes, I do understand the switched always on outlet. That's what I intend to do as well while I'm in there!

    Yeah... I'm obviously going to have to do this!
     
    #3 darelldd, Feb 24, 2006
  4. hobbit

    hobbit Senior Member

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    oop, by "bypasses" I meant that the Coastal kit bypasses the
    PWR OUTLET relay. By, as you say, connecting the light-green
    directly over to the white at the outlet. Sorry for the confusion.
    .
    The stock path is:
    PWR OUTLET fuse --> lt-green --> relay --> white --> outlet
    .
    _H*
     
    #4 hobbit, Feb 24, 2006
  5. darelldd

    darelldd Prius is our Gas Guzzler

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    #5 darelldd, Feb 24, 2006
  6. darelldd

    darelldd Prius is our Gas Guzzler

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    Awesome! Got it now. So that green wire really IS only powering the outlet. How handy. Still some scrawny wires though! happen to know the gage?
     
    #6 darelldd, Feb 24, 2006
  7. darelldd

    darelldd Prius is our Gas Guzzler

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    Hobbit -

    Here's what you helped me accomplish today. Thanks again!

    12V outlets
     
    #7 darelldd, Feb 25, 2006
  8. hobbit

    hobbit Senior Member

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    Those wires are about 20 gauge, in fact. Completely *unsuited*
    for carrying the fuse-rated 15 amps, or even 10 amps sustained,
    if you believe the National Electric Code. But carmakers apparently
    use undersize wire routinely in applications like this. I look with
    a skeptical eye on the HV battery cables being able to carry 100
    amps, too, but levels like that wouldn't last long. On the other
    hand, it *would* be possible to draw 10+ amps from the cig-lighter
    outlet for a long time. [Hmm, maybe I should *do* that and then
    go feel along the harness and body-ECU block...]
    .
    Nice touch adding the switch for your outlets. On the other hand,
    I've never trusted those IDC splice thingies to handle high loads..
    all my connections are slit/tap/solder/tape.
    .
    _H*
     
    #8 hobbit, Feb 25, 2006
  9. darelldd

    darelldd Prius is our Gas Guzzler

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    Pretty amazing. I've seen this gage for the heated seats in my Rav, and the outlets there as well. Cost savings, I imagine? Maybe weight savings? No clue. I don't know how they get away with it.

    I may redo the IDC (by this you mean the phone connector to the green wire, yes?) splice, though I don't expect to have anything beyond 2A going through either outlet. What I haven't shown is that both outlets are protected by a 2A fuse. I have no idea what the current rating is for those IDC splice jobbies - there is no indication on the packaging. I figure it must be better than 2A though. IF not, it will become my fuse, I guess. :cringe: I just studied one under a lighted lens, and from what I can tell, they're as robust as those scotch taps that everybody uses for trailer lighting, etc. Considering the wire guage we're using for the power, I really don't see that connector as being a weak link! All the wires that I added were 18 gage or better.
     
    #9 darelldd, Feb 25, 2006
  10. darelldd

    darelldd Prius is our Gas Guzzler

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    Hobit I need you!

    You already know what I've done here (tapping that green wire before the relay) for my always-on outlets. Well, I managed to have reverse polarity on the console outlet, and that screwed all kinds of things up when I plugged a device in. Blew the main fuse, etc. So I straightened that out, and that outlet now works perfectly (the one IN the center console). The other outlets don't work at all still, however. And for the life of me I can't figure out why. That same fuse powers the console outlet, so we know that's OK. Removing that fuse makes the relay click, so that *should* be OK. But there is simply no power to that green wire any longer (I've poked my probe into it before my splice connection.) Any clue why that green wire would not have power when the center console outlet still works!? Help! Trying to get going on a trip, and I need all these outlets for GPS, phone charging, etc. A million thanks if you can make me look stupid and tell me what the problem might be!
     
    #10 darelldd, Jul 31, 2006
  11. darelldd

    darelldd Prius is our Gas Guzzler

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    Found it! Wiring diagram to the rescue! FR Outlet fuse! Grr. Didn't know there was a second one since I'd only blown the console one before and figured that fed them all.

    OK... all set. Back to cutting metal. Thanks for looking... nothing more to see here!
     
    #11 darelldd, Jul 31, 2006
  12. hobbit

    hobbit Senior Member

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    okay, I was gonna ask you if you had the wiring diagram... *and*
    the "connector list", needed to find *where* any of the stuff is
    around the car.
    .
    What might have bit you is the fact that Toyota often uses *white*
    wires [with black stripe] for ground, and *black* for positive. But
    without any consistency whatsoever -- elsewhere, white might be +
    or purple or who the hell knows. How they came up with this
    nonsensical nightmare, I cannot imagine, let alone how they sort
    out *which* of several exactly identical harness wires go into
    which holes in the *same* connector in many cases.
    .
    _H*
     
    #12 hobbit, Jul 31, 2006
  13. randreed

    randreed Same as it ever was . . .

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hobbit @ Feb 23 2006, 07:03 PM) [snapback]215490[/snapback]</div>
    I would like to dig through the schematics. What is TIS, and how do we get there??
     
    #13 randreed, Jul 31, 2006
  14. darelldd

    darelldd Prius is our Gas Guzzler

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    Good lord. Where's the connector list? What's the title of the doc? Two letter designation? Anything?

    [quute]What might have bit you is the fact that Toyota often uses *white*
    wires [with black stripe] for ground, and *black* for positive. But
    without any consistency whatsoever[/quote]
    Oh yeah. It has bitten me before, and it'll bite me again. The frustrating part is how many times I tested everything before hooking it all up - only to get it wrong at the last second. Grrr. I need lieke 100 different colors of wire to match everything up when I go messing around in there!

    Thanks for swinging by. I was in bad shape there for a bit, and we're trying to leave on a long trip tomorrow!

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rand Reed @ Jul 31 2006, 05:23 PM) [snapback]295413[/snapback]</div>
    You get there here: http://techinfo.toyota.com/ then you pay your money and they show you some docs. If you're quick, you download them for later use. If you're bored, you also painstakingly rename them all to make sense.
     
    #14 darelldd, Jul 31, 2006
  15. randreed

    randreed Same as it ever was . . .

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Jul 31 2006, 09:15 PM) [snapback]295435[/snapback]</div>
    Thanks!
     
    #15 randreed, Jul 31, 2006
  16. darelldd

    darelldd Prius is our Gas Guzzler

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rand Reed @ Jul 31 2006, 06:44 PM) [snapback]295458[/snapback]</div>
    No problem. Just passing along the info that has been passed along to me. :)
     
    #16 darelldd, Jul 31, 2006
  17. hobbit

    hobbit Senior Member

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    Look for documents under the EWD entitled "Connector list",
    "connector, ground and splice location", "component location", and
    "relay locations". It's all in there with detailed little pictures
    and circles and arrows, although sometimes you have to zoom in
    pretty tight to see what they're pointing at.
    .
    _H*
     
    #17 hobbit, Jul 31, 2006
  18. darelldd

    darelldd Prius is our Gas Guzzler

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hobbit @ Jul 31 2006, 08:30 PM) [snapback]295506[/snapback]</div>
    Ah! Yup. That wiring diagram is a HUGE PDF! I could get lost in there for days and still not find my way out.

    Thanks again! Car is running, all three power outlets work. We're ready for the road.
     
    #18 darelldd, Jul 31, 2006
  19. Frank Hudon

    Frank Hudon Senior Member

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    want to guess how long those 22 gauge wires and splices and connectors last on a forklift in a fish plant? Less than 6 months before problems start to arise. What ever happened to 14 gauge wire? at least you could get the truck past the warranty expiration date.
     
    #19 Frank Hudon, Jul 31, 2006
  20. hobbit

    hobbit Senior Member

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    Maybe Toyota was trying to save some copper weight in the harness,
    but [and I've ranted about this over in prius_technical_stuff a few
    times too] they cut some corners where they really shouldn't have.
    We have NFPA/NEC wiring codes and ampacity charts for a reason.
    .
    _H*
     
    #20 hobbit, Aug 2, 2006
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