Lingua Franca & National Anthem

Sorry but YES! It matters a great deal.

America is know as a melting pot. Our many ancestors before us adapted and learned English. It is a second language required in Europe (whether or not it is used)
NJ has plenty of immigrants but you know the old saying about when in Rome....

if you want to stay here then you should prove your interest and Learn English!

 

Yes, it does.

Unlike the German, Yiddish, French, Latin and Samoan translations that have gone before, the current Nuevo Himno is just that....a new hymn. It is not a translation of the original lyrics. To call it a "loose translation" is to say that the Pope is a little religious.

And it is not respectful to insert a political agenda designed to incite into any country's national anthem. It is disrespectful.

And I am surprised the people pushing this agenda would show such disrespect of a country they claim they want so badly to become citizens of. I had to learn the Himno Nacional Mexicano in college for a choir tour of Mexico. And we never sang it. Why? Because it wasn't appropriate. Unlike America, Mexico has great respect for it's national anthem and it is reserved for solemn, important occasions. They don't sing it at sporting events and they don't change the words when a hockey player retires. (Wayne Gretzky) There is no spitting and crotch grabbing after they sing their anthem (Rosanne Barr). It is sung respectfully, not to show off the style of the singer. And it is not sung to an "Urban Latin beat".

Verse 1
Oh, say, can you see, by the dawn's early light,
What so proudly we hail as night falls?

Its stars and stripes floated yesterday
In the fierce combat, the sign of victory

The flame of battle, in step with liberty.
Throughout the night it was said, "It is being defended."

Chorus:
Oh, say! Does it still show its beautiful stars
Over the land of the free, the sacred flag?

Chant:
It's time to make a difference the kids, men and the women/Let's stand for our beliefs, let's stand for our vision/What about the children los ninos como P-Star
These kids have no parents, cause all of these mean laws. See this can't happen, not only about the Latins. Asians, blacks and whites and all they do is adding more and more, let's not start a war with all these hard workers, they can't help where they were born.

Verse 2
Its stars and stripes, liberty, we are the same.
We're brothers, it's our anthem.
In the fierce combat, the sign of victory,
The flame of battle, in step with liberty.
Throughout the night it was said, "It is being defended."

Chorus:
"Oh, say! Does it still show its beautiful stars?
Over the land of the free, the sacred flag?"

"We're brothers, it's our anthem"? No, it's not. Not until you are a legal American citizen.

 

It is the National Anthem of the United States of America. It is sung in English.

I am an immigrant. I learned English. I sing the Star Spangled Banner and say the pledge with as much pride as any "true" American. Our National Anthem is NOT sung in Spanish or any other language.

I find the Spanish version insulting.

I consider the idea of amnesty a slap in the face.

I think anyone who wants to be a citizen should learn English.

There is no movement against immigrants in this country.




My family made the many and difficult steps of coming to this country LEGALLY. Why did we have to bother? We could have just snuck in and taken advantage of the system illegaly. Giving ILLEGAL immigrants amnesty is personally insulting. You should not be rewarded for doing something illegally. Period. Why people get offended when I suggest they should learn English is beyond me. Have you ever been to Hialeah, down in Miami? My wife's grandparents live there, so we go quite often. You MUST speak Spanish. If you go into any store, Wal-Mart or whatever, only 1 in 10 employees speak any English! My wife's greandparents are the ONLY non-hispanic people left. Why should I have to speak Spanish in the US to do what I need? And I am fluent in Spanish. Yet if you suggest that they should speak English, it's like you insulted their mother!

Also, people are playing this out to be an attack on immigrants in general. No, only illegal immigrants. I myself am an immigrant, how could I be opposed to them. Reminds me of the Dave Chappelle skit of the black white supremacist. Anyway...

If you are here illegally, you are here ILLEGALLY! You do not get amnesty. So what if you've been here for 10 years. Doing something ILLEGALLY for 10 years doesn't make it right.

Creating a Spanish version of the Star Spangled Banner is only going to polarize the sides even more.


Whew! That was exhausting.

 

Liberal as I am, I agree 100% with Doc. There is no anti-immigrant movement. But we've done things wrong with Hispanic immigration for so long---yes, both parties, from the top down---that there's going to be a lot of howling if we start doing them right. That's OK.

 

Well, for whatever reason, the US does not have an official language.

Should it? I don't know. On one hand, the system does seem to be working for the most part. On the other, how much money would be saved by not having to give driver's tests in multiple languages?

Canada has two languages, and it works for them.


As much as I'd like to say throw all the illegals out (after all, they are here illegally) and make English the official language... I don't think either will happen.

The first is too difficult and we've looked the other way for too long... is it really right to kick someone out who has been here for years and considers this home?

The second, well, even if we made it the official language, the only thing it'd do is make it so all those government forms are only in English. I don't think it'd change who speaks what language in every day life.

We'll probably give a whole bunch of people amnesty and maintain having no official language or maybe even have two official languages (English and Spanish, of course). I don't know if it is the right choice, but it's the only one I see happening. Or maybe maintain the status quo and continue looking the other way, which I'm certain is the wrong choice.

I would have no problem with a Spanish translation of the Anthem. This isn't a translation.

 

I think Doc hit the nail on the head for me....

English. Anything else is wrong.


Why should I have to speak Spanish in the US to do what I need?-- Doc


I took Spanish as a second language, and when I go shopping with my mom in our very hispanic neighborhood local stores 90% of the signs are in SPANISH only. She can't read them, she doesn't know what it means, and she can't speak it to the employees of the store. Yes I'm rusty, yes I talk it like a gringo and struggle for words, but its only because I know so very little of it, and I'm not scared to learn more of it-- thats not a factor, its because for years all of our official documents are in ENGLISH and then translated if they have to be... I would consider English the official language. There is no secondary langauge here. PERIOD. Learn English. Salvation Army will teach you, the Church in my area has classes in English, and just about anyone out there would be able to point you in the direction of someone that won't ask for ID for you to learn the language. I wish it was that easy to learn Spanish so we could communicate with those that don't want to learn English, but I've had no luck in finding something that would help her to learn to deal with the changing neighborhood.


If you're illegal, leave... cause yeah. I stand strongly on that issue, and I'm not racist or anti-immigrant, I just hate criminals which is what they are.

 

I find it repugnant that our national anthem is a song glorifying war. It's also a mediocre tune that nobody can sing. As much as i dislike the god reference in America the Beautiful, that would be a much better national anthem. I vote we make the switch. Of course, I think that "Dump the Bosses Off Your back" would be an even better national anthem:

Sung to the tune of "What a freind we have in Jesus":

Are you cold, forlorn, and hungry? Are there lots of things you lack?
Is your life made up of misery? Then dump the bosses off your back!
All the agonies you suffer, you could end with one good whack!
So stiffen up you ornery duffer, and dump the bosses off your back!

... It goes on but I don't recall the verses offhand...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Apr 29 2006, 10:43 PM) [snapback]247426[/snapback]</div>

I used to teach music and from a musical standpoint, yes, there are a lot better songs than the National Anthem. It has a range of a tenth. That's an octave and a third. My professor in college used it as the audition piece for the University Choir because you almost have to be a trained singer to do it any justice. And yes, if you read the lyrics it is about ONE battle in a war. It hardly represents the United States. For lyrics and ease of performance I'd go with America the Beautiful. It was written by a female professor inspired by a trip to Pike's Peak. That could certainly be the "National Song" sung at all functions the current Star Spangled Banner enjoys performances. The Star Spangled Banner could be relegated to the marching band. I'm rather partial to the sentiments of "This Land is Your Land" but it doesn't have the regal bearing, is a bit too folksy and repetitive and I imagine some of our legislators still have problems with the composer, even though it is a purely American composition I.E. the tune wasn't borrowed from somewhere else. Of course America is out of the running since that is pinched from God Save the Queen/King.

Yeah, I'm all for America the Beautiful as the National Song. But I doubt it will happen.

I will say this. If anything put English as the national language on the front burner it will be the Nuevo Himno. And if anything can be credited with the passage of a Federal Law/Amendment/Whatever making English the national language it will be the Nuevo Himno.

And while the Nuevo Himno may have been designed to bolster Latino solidarity and make them feel good about themselves....it is going to take "undecideds" and push them to the right on immigration. I know because I'm a liberal and I can feel myself resisting more and more points on the new immigration reforms.

 

I've just spent 5 minutes searching on Google, and I cannot find any reference to this Nuevo Himno. Can anyone post a link to the words (in Spanish)?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ Apr 30 2006, 07:24 AM) [snapback]247538[/snapback]</div>

I have yet to locate the lyrics, but you can Listen To The Song Here

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(IsrAmeriPrius @ Apr 30 2006, 11:50 AM) [snapback]247562[/snapback]</div>

Well, wasn't that just precious.

I'm a first generation American. Why would I want to hear that? I grew up in a neighborhood of immigrants, all of whom had to learn the English language to get by, and they did so proudly.

The U.S. is supposed to be a melting pot, that means we all blend together. Cultural diversity is dividing us.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Jim1eye @ May 1 2006, 06:07 AM) [snapback]247889[/snapback]</div>

The language pattern of immigration from non-English-speaking countries has never changed:

The first generation (the people who come here themselves) continue to speak their native language. Partly because it's hard for an uneducated adult to learn a foreign language. And partly because they're working 60 to 80 hours a week to get by on their sub-standard wages. The second generation learns their parents' language at home, and learns English in school, and is fully bilingual. It's fun to talk to such people and see the ease with which they can switch back and forth. The third generation often grows up hearing only English at home and loses its ancestral language, which is a shame.

I've seen this pattern working with Mexican immigrants when I was in Fargo, doing volunteer work in a legal aid office that provided legal help to migrant farm workers.

That first generation will never learn English. The second and subsequent generations will be fluent in English. And I for one think our country is culturally and economically stronger when there is a large pool of bilingual and multilingual people. Remember the Iran hostage crisis, when the State Dept and the CIA did not have one single operative who spoke Pharsee?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(daniel @ May 1 2006, 11:31 AM) [snapback]247945[/snapback]</div>

I personally could not care less about what language you speak as long as you are fluent in English if you want to be a citizen here and receive all the rights and benefits each and every citizen is entitled to.

I think we make a huge mistake as a country bending over backwards unlike ANY other country who forces its new citizens to speak its language. Move to Mexico and see if they have ballots or drivers tests in English.

Also, we are witnessing a new wave of immigrants who are teaching their children their primary language (not English) and not English and the school systems are teaching them too in this non-English language were as BEFORE when my grandparents immigrated here, my parents were forced to learn perfect English in school and not as a second language. Again, I could care less - they are just depriving their own children of magnificent opportunities those who speak English proficiently have access to.

Kind of interesting how the entire world is teaching their own population conversational English while we let those here skate by. Either way - makes no difference to me.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ May 1 2006, 10:38 AM) [snapback]247950[/snapback]</div>

You could care less or you couldn't care less?

Recently my husband and I went to deposit a check at a local Chase bank here in Houston. The branch was completely out of english deposit slips so we had to fill out a spanish deposit slip. I know one phrase in spanish, "Yo soy gringa"... needless to say, I wasn't pleased. I wonder what might happen if I were to visit, say Mexico, and demand that they conform to my language? I'll bet that not only would that not fly, but I would get laughed at and probably spit on to boot. I'm sorry, but this issue is BS! If it's going to be mandatory that young children learn spanish in our school systems, then it had damn well be mandatory that they learn english, too... same goes for the parents of said children.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dsunman @ Apr 28 2006, 01:49 PM) [snapback]246735[/snapback]</div>

Funny you brought that up.... by what % did the french speaking canadians almost break away from canada??

A common language unifies - the larger the base of people who speak that language, the greater its strength. why is the default language for the EU English? Why does every educated person, almost every educated person, on this planet speak English? Why does almost every country teach English either as a primary language or the second language??

 

Europeans have a word for people who can only speak one language - uneducated.

Want to make the US a better country? Make yourself a better person. Learn Spanish (or French or Mandarin), learn to play the piano or violin (it isn't that hard and you will still have time for Priuschat) Read foreign newspapers and watch those funny movies with words on the bottom. Get a passport and travel to one of the other 191 countries in this beautiful world. (End of diatribe)

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(heliotropehead @ May 1 2006, 08:54 AM) [snapback]247957[/snapback]</div>

I lived in Mexico for 4 1/2 years. Never did I see any American tourist spat upon for speaking only English. Mexicans absolutely love it when you make an attempt, however feeble, to speak their language. But they are never rude or hateful to people who speak other languages. Leave it to the French and the Americans to spew venom and hatred against people who speak other languages than their own. Mexicans (by and large) will do their best to communicate with you, and they will be kind and polite and helpful, regardless of your language.

In Oaxaca I was standing in line behind a woman at a museum ticket booth. The woman in line was complaining angrily at the woman in the ticket booth because the booth had a sign that said "taquilla" (ticket booth) instead of "tickets." When it was my turn I apologized to the woman in the booth. I was angry at the woman ahead of me in line for being the "ugly American." The woman in the booth, however, was only sad, not angry.

Again, I never saw a Mexican get angry at Americans for insisting they be served in English. Never angry. Sometimes sad. And always delighted at my (at first) horrible attempts to speak their language. Eventually I got better.

And BTW, it is FUN to speak another language. Try it. You'll like it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(jared2 @ May 1 2006, 02:22 PM) [snapback]248053[/snapback]</div>

Excellent point, however, the fact that I can speak Spanish or French or Mandarin (which I can) doesn't mean that I should impose that on the masses; and if I were living in Spain or France or China I would not expect them to accomodate me if I spoke only English.

(Pointless meandering): Probably explains why the National Anthem of the gold medalist at an Olympic event is always instrumental.

On that note, never having been to a BlueJays or Expos (sorry, Montreal) game, could any of our Canadiens out there tell us if they sing "O, Canada" in both languages at the opening of a game (if at all)?