Long term cost of ownership

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bob64 @ Apr 9 2007, 02:29 AM) [snapback]420155[/snapback]</div>

Check with your insurance company. They might give you a discount for a hybrid.

Hybrids 1.5 times the cost of regular car? Uh, no. More expensive then a sub compact stripped down tin box, yes. The Prius is a medium sized sedan and has some luxury features. The Prius cost more than a Yaris, yes. It costs a lot less than a Lexus, BMW, Mercedes, etc. Cost is relative. What are you getting for your money? The Prius is a great value for the money. Right now they have a discount on options so you might be able to negotiate a higher package.

I have no way of knowing about the property tax thing.

The Prius does have less maintenance than a regular ICE car.

1) no starter (ie, as long as we have battery power, we can start the engine). This is good, since a good number of car malfunctions are bad starters.

2) no transmission. I thought the Prius had a CVT... but apparently, it effectively has NO transmission, (planetary gear) reducing power loss and... more importantly, again reducing the number of potential malfunctions

3) Regenerative braking - much less use of the brake pads.

4) The computer control of the engine ensures less stress is put on it, particularly when cold (the engine usually idles until it's warmed up while the battery takes over most of the work).

5) No clutch.

6) No alternator.

7) Only one drive belt for water pump.

It also have has a chain rather than a belt so less wear there. Oil change every 5,000 miles (not 3,000 like some cars). I'm sure others can let you know what routine maintenance is less frequent or not necessary compared to a cheaper ICE car.

I don't know where you are but in California the hybrid system is warrantied for 10 years or 150,000 miles.

Keep in mind that not only will you save on gas but you'll also pollute 80% LESS than a cheap ICE car.

I suggest you get your parents to go drive one. Compare that to a Corolla and while the Corolla is an OK car, it's cheaper. It's worth $15,000 and the Prius is worth $22,000. There's a reason for that. Keep in mind that the Corolla and Prius are not "even". It's like comparing a Corolla and a Camry. Remember: You get what you pay for.

 

property tax, Wth? Are you 100% sure on that? that doesnt even make any sense. But basicly what Godiva said.

 

Please. No new car on the market today specifies anywhere near a 3000 mile oil change, and in fact the Prius is deficient in specifying as low as a 5000 mile oil change. Most cars specify 7500 miles, and that's only IF they don't have the current computer technology that calculates the optimum oil change interval based on the type of driving the car has gotten.

Frankly, with all the technology inside the Prius, I was shocked that it doesn't have the simple automated oil change minder. It's not rocket science; it's just a simple algorithm for the computer to follow, and the Prius has nothing if not plenty of computing horsepower.

And an automated oil change minder is perfect to maximize the utilization of oil resources--which is what the Prius is all about.

Shoot, the lowliest Civic has this in it.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(adam1991 @ Apr 9 2007, 12:23 PM) [snapback]420183[/snapback]</div>

How come the European manual says 15000 km, that's over 9000 miles?

 

i have had my prius since 2004...i travel approximately 15-18000 miles/year...my fuel consumption has been reduced by 2/3rds over the period from purchase to now...maintenance has been oil changes filter changes and tires, and inspection...other than that no outlay of money for any thing...i dont know how "old " the parents are, but i am from the post ww2 baby boom generation...and in my opinion, this whole scenerio sounds like what i heard from the generation prior to mine(dont get me wrong, the older generation has forgot more than this current generation knows...)...lets see...we dont need a tv its corrupt...(may have a point there)...then dont need a color tv, black and white is fine..., then when the radio needed replaced...dont need it, the ol tube job works fine...when the car needed replaced...just a bit longer...the wire will hold the clutch together...then we dont need satellite tv...dont watch it...now its we dont need HD tv...standard tv is fine...until they shut it off...you see my point...i think once they see the benefits of the prius...and compare it to the depreciation curve of other vehicles...the new technology "scares " some due to lack of knowledge.......keep in mind this...gas isnt 20cents /gallon any more and the higher gas goes...the prius is worth more....btw you think you have taxes...try indiana...new car plates with property tax...or they call it excise tax is $300+ for new cars....depending on the car...in essence the govt condones driving junk based on tax laws...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(adam1991 @ Apr 9 2007, 06:23 AM) [snapback]420183[/snapback]</div>

Actually, the Prius does have this feature, its the "MAIN REQ" light that comes on at 5000, 10000, 15000, etc. miles.

The maintenace on the Prius is certainly much less than regular vehicles. All I've ever had to do is change the oil and rotate the tires. Its a breeze!!

 

Another small benefit of the Prius in your area: HOV lane access. But check into it first to make sure it's gonna last. There was a move this year in the General Assembly and/or by the Governor to cut it off. Since we don't have HOV lanes in central VA I haven't followed the issue closely, so I don't know what happened.

 

Well, hold on a minute. What are we shopping the Prius against here? If it's Prius vs. another car in the $23,000 range then the financial math is easy. The Prius is likely to win by a large margin. But if we're talking about a $23,000 Prius vs. a $12-$16k Yaris, Fit, Versa, etc. then you're going to have a very hard time justifying it on cost alone. Then there's the question, do your parents really want to spend that much money on a car? It sounds like they might not, in which case I think that the choices mentioned above would be worth a good long look.

Don't get me wrong, if I had to do it all again I would buy my Prius a second time. It's a great vehicle and exactly serves my needs. But it isn't the be-all and end-all of relatively efficient transportation. I think it's well worth owning, but only if the price fits the budget.

 

Their instincts are correct: Prius is not the cheapest car to own. But if they are trying to minimize the total cost of ownership then they should not buy any new car.

"Prius versus anything else" is too broad a question to answer. They need to decide what characteristics they want, and go from there.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rangerdavid @ Apr 9 2007, 08:16 AM) [snapback]420193[/snapback]</div>

No, that's just a mileage based reminder. I'm talking about the advanced systems that look at cold starts, high RPM during warmup, highway miles vs. city miles, etc. and are programmed that these variety of events each has its own effect on oil life.

Add up the events, and you get to a point where the oil is finished and needs replaced. If you do nothing but short trips in cold weather, the light will come on MUCH SOONER than if you do nothing but highway driving in moderate weather.

With all the computing power put into the Prius, I'm amazed that such a simple system got left out, and that they're telling us to use simple mileage as the determining factor for oil changes.

Imagine the oil that could be saved by implementing such a system. And like I said, the lowly Civic has this...

 

Your parents should buy what they want based on their needs.

If they want an appliance that will get them from point A to point B, and the majority of time it is a short distance ... they should definitely buy the Corolla.

I had a 1994 Corolla that had 167,000 miles on it when I got rid of it, and the only unscheduled maintenance it needed was a $9.00 relay at around 120,000.

They are great cars, and since a new model is coming out later this year, the incentives will be huge to get the current (albeit aging) Corolla off the lot.

While I applaud your enthusiasm and diplomatic approach to your parents' car-buying exploits, you need to remember two things:

1. It's your parents' money, not your money.
2. Your parents have to live with the car, you don't.

They will buy what they want.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bob64 @ Apr 9 2007, 02:29 AM) [snapback]420155[/snapback]</div>

There's three things here that hit me, and I'm surprised others haven't mentioned this.
1) practically speaking, buying new is almost always a waste of money (except collectibles or the Prius when it was back-ordered 8 months+), so it's hard to do a valid economic analysis on this. If you're interested in the bottom line, you always buy used. But that's not what your argument is about at this point, so I'll move on.
2) there are other hybrids as well, if they want something that looks/feels more like a "normal" car - the Honda Civic Hybrid or Toyota Camry Hybrid come to mind. Most of us here feel the Prius is a better value, a purer solution, but it's not for everybody. Fighting your parents too hard won't help in the long run. The HCH gets close to the same mileage (mid 40's, compared to upper 40's to 50 mpg for the average driver).
3) if they don't like giving money to support the war, I assume they don't like sending money to OPEC, which feeds and arms the terrorists, directly or indirectly. Petroleum imports are the biggest single component of our foreign deficit. It is un-American to waste oil! Remind them we're funding both sides of the war.

The hybrid premium is not 50%, more like $2K at this point (10%), but that's been mentioned. Anything else in the price differential is because of added features, like CVT, smart HVAC settings, the display, emission controls that lower pollution beyond that from just the reduced gas usage, etc. Keep in mind the hybrid tax credit can be reduced or eliminated if your parents pay AMT in their taxes. And if they do go with the Corolla, don't feel bad, it's still a good car. I have a friend with a base model stick-shift Corolla, and going under 60mph on the highway he gets in the upper-40's mpg. And it costs less money, more they can spend on their favorite child!

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bob64 @ Apr 9 2007, 02:29 AM) [snapback]420155[/snapback]</div>

"Kick the bucket" - altho I guess a car can't kick per se, so maybe you had it right?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Bob64 @ Apr 9 2007, 03:11 AM) [snapback]420165[/snapback]</div>

man, thats a bummer. Sooo lame, hate the friggin IRS. Anyhoo, from what you say, looks like the prius might not be for you. Seems like for your parents, total cost of ownership is the most important, which means a corolla or another similarly priced car is for you.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(lowlander @ Apr 9 2007, 02:33 AM) [snapback]420186[/snapback]</div>

Superior lubricants. Most commonly available motor oils in the US are vastly inferior to the ones normally specified by car makers in the EU.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nerfer @ Apr 9 2007, 05:13 PM) [snapback]420366[/snapback]</div>

I gotta say, aside from the funky gearshift and the dashboard video game, Toyota did one heckuva job of making the Prius as normal a car as you can imagine.

There's absolutely no funkiness about driving it--none. A new driver will notice, after having driven the Prius, that other automatic transmission cars have that serious "pull" after a cold start, while the engine is revving high to warm up, that the Prius doesn't have. That's about it.

If you put a standard looking and operating gearshift lever on the Prius and a standard key, and took away the dashboard graphics, the driver wouldn't know or care what was going on under the hood. That's how well Toyota has built this car.

There can be no apples-to-apples comparison, really, because there's nothing else in the mid-size market at $25K with all the googies that are available on the Prius. That advantage is also its disadvantage. People don't understand something that's different like that. It doesn't "fit in".

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nark @ Apr 9 2007, 05:21 PM) [snapback]420378[/snapback]</div>

I don't care for the IRS either (or our income tax system, but that's a subject for another thread and another day). But this a Virginia thing, not an IRS thing.

 

One of the reasons I bought the Prius was the belief that it would hold its value better than my Olds. I am also expecting less maintenance and less down time. Historically used Prii have held their value well but that may not have been in a normal market. As an estimate, calculate the kbb value of a comparably equiped 2006, 2005, and 2004 Prius with the mileage you would expect to put on the car. What is the new car going to replace? My Prius burns half the gas of my Intrigue. Yes, my insurance went up when the $25550 2006 Prius replaced the $1300 (or so at best) 1989 Delta 88.

For the other posters, Maryland also collects property tax on cars. Maybe it's a Southern thing?