1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Looking to purchase a Prius II (Package A)

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by MSantos, Oct 6, 2006.

  1. MSantos

    MSantos EcoAccelerometry

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2006
    576
    249
    1
    Location:
    Canada, Winnipeg
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Technology
    Hi folks;

    I figured that my wife would perhaps like to drive a hybrid vehicle too. So far, I've looked at several and of course, the Prius keeps coming up. My main questions:

    1- In you experiences, how's Toyota for hybrid service and the hybrid knowledge of their technicians?

    2 - Also, I am looking for a Prius II trimmed at package A (Canada). Any advice on which trim is actually a better bang for the buck?

    3 - Obviously, the Prius is not the only game in town and my wife hates large cars (she's not a tall person and she prefers "smaller" cars because of manouverability and parking issues). She thinks the Accord is too much car so the Camry hybrid will likely get the same vote. What do you believe is a plausible choice? ... and why?


    Regards;


    MS
     
  2. eagle33199

    eagle33199 Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    5,122
    268
    0
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two
    1 - Prius techs are increasing in number every day it seems, but it might be difficult finding one still. That being said, don't let it put you off! You only need a Prius tech when something goes really wrong with the car... a vast majority of people with a Prius will only ever have the car in for routine maintenance, which anyone can do (oil change, rotate tires, etc).

    2 - I'm not sure what the canadian packages are, but it definately pays to get one with the side and curtain airbags. While you hope and pray you never have to use them, they dramatically increase the safety rating of the car, and i've seen several posters that attribute those airbags to saving their life in an accident (from what i've heard on here, just everyone walks away from those accidents with only some bumps and bruises - the airbags really do their job). After that, it's all personal preference. the bluetooth cell phone hook up is nice, as is the GPS, but only if you really want them and think you would use them. If you didn't have them on a rpevious car, you won't miss them on this one.

    3. The Prius is decent sized. From the outside it looks small, while the intrior feels huge. It has a fairly tight turning radius. It's smaller than the Camry, but larger than the Corolla. Coming off a 2-door sunfire, which is a pretty small car, i have to say this handles about the same (ignoring differences in engine). You also tend to sit a little higher in the Prius than other normal cars i've been in, giving you a better view of the road.

    I hope you can convince her to at least give the Prius a test drive! most people here simply fell in love with the car when they got in it for the first time!
     
  3. MSantos

    MSantos EcoAccelerometry

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2006
    576
    249
    1
    Location:
    Canada, Winnipeg
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Technology
    Thanks for the advice Eagle.

    I always take my vehicles to the dealership. Over the years I've built a very strong (overwelming) reason to continue doint it that way. Unfortunately, the dealerships don't always seem to offer solid training to their technicians in hybrid technologies. What that means is that seemingly simple problems do not get resolved promptly enough because the technicians are poorly supported in other areas beyond knowledge alone. I've never really dealt with Toyota service departments so I am being a bit cautious here and looking for a positive trend.

    I totally agree with the curtain airbags. However, I do not want to pay much more than what I would pay for another HCH-II. I'll look into this thing more carefuly as I would really like that safety feature. Thanks for pointing it out. Bluetooth and GPS are extras that would not be utlitized at all. They are certainly wasted in her case.

    I agree, being able to have a good view of the road ahead, sides and behind is also a big plus for her as well as having good seat height adjustments. So it is nice to hear that the Prius would do well in that department too.

    I see many Prius II around these parts (mostly Taxis) and it does not look like a large car at all - which is good. I think a test drive is in order. I'll have to find a dealership that has one available for a test drive. So far, I've found none. I'll keep trying though. This morning, I've ventured into a nearby Toyota dealership and had a quick look at Camry hybrid. Nice vehicle but the Trunk appears no bigger than the one on the HCH-II and that along with its "larger" exterior dimensions puts it out of the running for her (darn).

    Cheers;


    MS
     
  4. eagle33199

    eagle33199 Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    5,122
    268
    0
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two
    Just a warning, the pillars on either side of the front windshield appear huge at first, making it feel like there's a large blind spot. after a few days you don't notice it, however, and it really isn't a problem. Also, the front windshield seems huge, since it has a different slope than most other cars. The placement of the instrument cluster, and the creative use of mirrors with them, make it much easier to quickly check speed and such while driving - It's closer to the windshield, and looks "farther away", meaning you don't have to adjust your focus as much.

    Some people have also complained about the view out the back, so you might want to look at that as well. If the view from the back bothers you, check out the backup Camera - it's standard issue here in the states now, not sure about Canada. i have it, and love it.

    Unfortunately, the seat height can't be adjusted with the current Prius. the back tilt and forward/back position can be, but not the height. The only people i've heard voicing complaints about this, however, are the really tall ones (like 6'8''+)

    As for the HyCam, the trunk is small. smaller than the normal Camry, since the batteries protrude into it. With the Prius, it's a completely different story. Looking at it, you can't even tell the batteries are back there. Also, being a hatchback, there's a ton of storage room when you need it (in another post, someone fit two mattresses from a twin sized bed and a futon cushon all at once!)

    If you can't get a test drive in one, there are a couple of other options you could try. Many rental car companies are adding them to their fleet, and you might be able to find one there. Some taxi drivers are also picking up the Prius (there was one up in Canada that was very widely known). Unfortunately, with the high demand for the car, dealerships generally don't keep any on the lots, so you may have to get creative to find one (even if it's just to ride in).
     
  5. David Beale

    David Beale Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2006
    5,963
    1,979
    0
    Location:
    Edmonton Alberta
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    The Camry hybrid is larger outside, and has less cargo room than the Prius. I'll be getting a Prius because:
    a) It is very efficient in use of space - outside about the size of a Corolla, inside about the size of a "normal" Camry.
    B) It is a very cool high tech. car.
    c) It is the "untimate hybrid" mileage wise.
    In that order. ;)

    The cost of a Prius is about the same as a "normal" Camry.

    Our available packages in Canada are, base, with no options (pack A), pack. B, all options except nav., and pack. C all options (leather not offered). (for those to lazy to check the site ;) )
    From pack A to B there is about a $4000 cost. From B to C there is about a $3000 cost.

    The only way to get the side and curtain airbags is to go with pack B or C. :(

    Look around, a dealer should have a car to test drive. Right now is a bad time, as they have just cleared out the 2006s, and the 2007s are due any day now, so that's why you don't see many in stock.

    I was impressed with Toyota City in Wetaskiwin, Alberta. Let me test drive a new one, and later on, a used one. Didn't bug me to buy, but did offer to take $2500 off list on a pack B (without me even asking). Probably too far for you to travel ;) but just some info for barganing.

    I'm watching the dealerships for the 2007s, because the electronic brochure indicates we get rear disk brakes. I think my car just sold last night, so am getting anxious. :)
     
  6. MSantos

    MSantos EcoAccelerometry

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2006
    576
    249
    1
    Location:
    Canada, Winnipeg
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Technology
    Thank you for the very helpful feedback.

    I'm going to have to put the issue entirely on her hands. I am hoping very hard that she likes it.

    Yes, the A pillars issue. She does not like them thick on my car either (the small triangular windows don't help). I'll try to soften her up on the A pillars visibility issue.

    However, the curtain air bags being only available on packages B and C kind of "sours" the deal for us. The B package appears to start at ~$34K (almost 3K more that the A package) - which to us is already $5K more than the 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid (that we already have). That would make it - let's say, $8K more ? Gee, its going to take me some "sweet talking" of my part to get a new Prius in our garage :rolleyes: Darn. .... I guess roses and chocolates is perhaps not enough this time. ;)


    Wish me luck.


    MS
     
  7. eagle33199

    eagle33199 Platinum Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2006
    5,122
    268
    0
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Vehicle:
    2015 Prius v wagon
    Model:
    Two
    Definately the best of luck to you. Like i said, with any luck she'll just fall in love with the car on the test drive, like many of us here have.

    IMO, one of the big selling points of the car has got to be this forum... There's tons of information here for the person who loves the car, and even more when something (rarely) goes wrong. We've even got access to a Prius tech for some small advice when needed (and he's one of the best, from what i've heard).

    best advice: don't talk about prices until after the test drive. let her form an opinion of the car in her mind not clouded by money.
     
  8. raljen

    raljen New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2006
    7
    0
    0


    The back-up camera is not stndard..... on the 2007, it starts on the #2 pkg....... I love it also.....
     
  9. David Beale

    David Beale Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2006
    5,963
    1,979
    0
    Location:
    Edmonton Alberta
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    In Canada you have to get the full deal (pack C) to get the backup camera. It's included with the Nav.

    Justification time! Be aware the Prius is quite large inside, as I hinted above. Rear seat legroom is amazing! Just keep telling yourself you're getting a Camry that's small on the outside and you'll be fine. ;)

    Being from Winnipeg, you'll also have to get winter tires, so you may want to factor that into the equation. I'd recommend trying to get the dealer to take back the OEM tires when you buy something like Nokian WRs to put on when the car is new/delevered (so you don't have to worry about changing them every winter).

    Also, search here for winter operation (I think my thread is still active in "Technical"). Unless you take steps the Prius can be a cold car in winter. It's not that hard, however. Just putting on the front "vent covers", also refered to as "lips" can make a big difference. Or a proper cold front. Your car will come with the block heater.
     
  10. MSantos

    MSantos EcoAccelerometry

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2006
    576
    249
    1
    Location:
    Canada, Winnipeg
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Technology
    Eagle & David: Thanks for the advice.
    The backup camera is nice but not for that price. At the moment, I am almost out of good reasons to coerce my wife into considering a Prius - her main pet peeve is the center display, the high back-end and no seat height adjustability. The uncompetitive price is also not helping my efforts. I cannot understand how come the canadian prices put the prius at more than $8,000 compared to the Civic I bought earlier, but yet, its is competitively priced to the Civic in the US? :blink:

    Yes, the prius is VERY large inside, particularly so in the cargo area (I simply loved it). However, it did not strike me as "larger" for the passenger space (cabin). Perhaps it is, I just could not see it nor could my wife. Rear visibility was very poor, particularly for my wife. I think a camera is the trick. Maybe an aftermarket unit similar to the one I had installed earlier will do.

    I always have a set of winter tires & timed block heater unit for all my vehicles - it is a mandatory biblical rule, especially for hybrid driving. :)


    The test drive today... :)

    We actually managed to get a test drive. After visiting 4 dealerships we got to do a test drive on a used "after lease" vehicle at the fifth dealership. It was a 2006 Prius with 24000 km in it (16K miles). Not in bad shape at all (package B ).

    Overall it was a pretty bad experience mostly because of the sales people. My wife was fuming and about to blast-off at them by the moment we were done with the test drive.
    From the moment we drove in, they stared at us and soon after we were greeted by a salesperson who kept assuming that we wanted to trade in our vehicle (even after I told them on the phone otherwise) ????
    Then afterwards, frequent little jabs like "With the prius, it will be nice to have a real hybrid for a change." ... and so on and on. It was getting tiresome and rude for both of us.
    Both my wife and I are "technically endowed" from a professional standpoint, and quite frankly, we were appalled at the amount of bovine technical excrement being dished at us (pardon my french). Even I was unprepared for that.

    Anyway, the test drive was less than 60 minutes and my wife is a little confused. She complained about the cross winds and the cars tendency to wobble off of the straigt line (perhaps it needs an alignment). I did not drive the car for more than 10 minutes, but it felt VERY good.
    Anyway, the main moral of today's adventure is "keep looking ... elsewhere". We stopped at the second dealership we visited and asked them to give as a call whenever a unit is available for a test drive. Maybe we'll have better luck next time.


    Cheers;

    MS
     
  11. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    44,767
    16,016
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Sorry to hear the test drive was sour.

    I think it's sites like PriusChat that endows us with the power of knowledge which some dealers seem to lack. My Prius technician screwed up big time over the ECU recall last Dec.

    I have a 2005 Premium Package (Pkg B). Financially, the Camry Hybrid is the better deal. It comes with 80%-90% (and of course a few addition features not available on the Prius) of what the Prius Pkg B has for a few hundred dollars more than the base Prius.

    But if you have your heart set on the Prius, I would strongly recommend Pkg "B". You do get cool stuff like the Smart Key and auto-dimming mirrors w/ Homelink but you also get safety equipment such as side/side curtain airbags and stability control. You can add foglights (sorta useless) and the alarm system to the 'safety' list too I suppose.

    Just know that the Prius is 3 inches SHORTER than the current Corolla but as you probably noticed, it's rather large inside. The almost flat-folding rear seats are fantastic. I think the reason why it doesn't feel large to you is the width. It has the same shoulderroom as the Corolla. Most of the space is in the form of legroom.

    The screen can be shut off. Additionally, the Camry Hybrid does NOT have a screen so if that helps, you can get that instead.

    I don't think the rear end is that high since the lower rear window is the same height as the top of the rear seatback. In sedans, the parcel shelf can be slightly slant upwards, raising the rear and reducing visibility.

    If all else fails, import one from the US. Ecojosh did just that! You just need to add DRLs at Canadian Tire.
     
  12. Presto

    Presto Has his homepage set to PC

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2005
    1,326
    24
    0
    Location:
    Vancouver, BC
    Vehicle:
    2005 Prius
    Package B for the win. It's a bit pricier, but you can't deny the addition of some important safety elements like the VSC, and side air-bags. I got Package B for the side airbags, since the folks wanted piece of mind after the bad accident with my old car. I thought I would be content with a basic package "A", but now that I have the "B" package, I don't know what I would do without SKS, Homelink or VSC.
     
  13. Rancid13

    Rancid13 Cool Chick with a Black Prius

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2005
    2,452
    3
    0
    Location:
    Los Alamitos, Orange County, CA
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MSantos @ Oct 6 2006, 05:37 AM) [snapback]328855[/snapback]</div>
    I've taken my Prius in twice for the regular routine maintainance to the dealer. No complaints about the servicing or hybrid knowledge of the technicians. Was in and out of there in under 30 minutes and each time it was under $60 for the servicing (oil change, tire rotations, etc etc every 5K miles). Now that hybrids have been around for 5+ years in North America for Toyota, I think a lot of the dealers have service techs that are more familiar with the cars and how they function/operate, etc.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MSantos @ Oct 6 2006, 05:37 AM) [snapback]328855[/snapback]</div>
    Unfortunately I don't know anything about the packages offered in Canada. I would just look at what each package offers and decide based on your needs/wants as to which one would be worth your $$.

    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MSantos @ Oct 6 2006, 05:37 AM) [snapback]328855[/snapback]</div>
    Considering I'm on the small side (5'2"), not unlike your wife, I feel VERY uncomfortable driving my husband's Accord. I feel like it's indeed too much car and I've always had issues with parking it and getting into spaces easily, no matter how much room I have. Considering the Camry is probably the same size as the Accord as far as outer dimensions go, I would probably have had a difficult time driving and parking one also. Those 2 cars, along with the Mazda6, were on my list of cars to look at when I was looking for a new car.

    Then someone mentioned the Prius, which I'd heard about but hadn't really thought about. After looking into them, I went ahead and ordered one. A month later I had the opportunity to test drive one and I felt comfortable immediately upon sitting in the driver's seat. No issues whatsoever with parking it, I feel very at ease in parking lots, knowing that the Prius will fit in many small spots, and even into compact parking spaces because it's so "skinny" compared to the wider Camry and Accord. If I had gotten a Camry, Accord, or Mazda6 that is similarly equipped to my Prius (I had to have the fully-loaded one with everything), the cost of the car would have been quite similar to what I paid for the Prius but I'd be getting worse gas mileage, paying more to fill it up at the pump, polluting more, and having somewhat of a tougher time maneuvering and parking the thing no matter how much I 'practiced'.

    See if you can stop by a few dealers and let her sit in the driver's seat of the various cars you're looking at, see about getting a test drive also, and see which one makes her feel the most at ease and comfortable in, driving, and parking.
     
  14. MSantos

    MSantos EcoAccelerometry

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2006
    576
    249
    1
    Location:
    Canada, Winnipeg
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Technology
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tideland Prius @ Oct 7 2006, 07:46 PM) [snapback]329611[/snapback]</div>
    Thanks Tideland;

    Her problem is not the screen. Instead, she claims its position is the problem as she claims it is not driver centric and off her preferred line of sight, hence dangerous. :huh: :unsure: I like it, but she just appears to not click with it ... Anyway, she just told me "no more Prius test drives".

    Rats. :(

    The issue with the Camry is that it is too big a car for her (too long I guess - her current car is a 2004 Acura EL) - She had test driven the Accord Hybrid and she found it bulky and too massive - she just says no to anything in the same class/size. Then it is also the disapointing trunk space for such a large car - the Civic problem with a $10K penalty.

    Anyhow, it looks like I wont be seeing a spanking new Prius on my garage after all. Some of us are just meant not to have a chance. :(


    Cheers;


    MS
     
  15. David Beale

    David Beale Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2006
    5,963
    1,979
    0
    Location:
    Edmonton Alberta
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Does she like -your- car? Give her that, and -you- think about the Prius. ;)
     
  16. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    44,767
    16,016
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(MSantos @ Oct 7 2006, 08:48 PM) [snapback]329665[/snapback]</div>
    Well, the ONLY 2 cars with a screen in the instrument cluster housed within the speedo are the Chrysler Pacifica andthe new Mercedes S-Class. Like I said, she'll almost never need to look at the screen since all the major functions are on the steering wheel. The main cluster is ahead of you (speedo, fuel gauge etc) so really, no need to look at the screen at all. But hey, whaddya gonna do?

    Maybe do what David suggests. Give her your car :p
     
  17. MSantos

    MSantos EcoAccelerometry

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2006
    576
    249
    1
    Location:
    Canada, Winnipeg
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Technology
    Well, we talked about that... but because I've customized my 06 she sees it as my car :p . Anyhow, she "commanded" me to call "the Ted guy at the dealership" and put her on the list for a Fluorite Metalic. The woman is set.

    Thanks for great help and patience folks. It looks like a "best of both worlds" setup is not for me this time.

    Cheers;

    MS
     
  18. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2004
    44,767
    16,016
    41
    Location:
    Canada
    Vehicle:
    Other Non-Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    Oh. Alright, that'll make it a 2 HCH household then lol. Keep us posted!
     
  19. hdrygas

    hdrygas New Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2004
    3,650
    6
    0
    Location:
    Olympia Wa
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    If I might I would suggest this; Go to your dealer and ask to meet with the Prius Tech. Shake his or her hand and talk with them. Are they excited about this technology? An eye to eye meeting will tell you a lot. I (We in Olympia) are lucky to have one of the "good guys" to work on our cars. Toyota did a very smart thing in bringing this technology to the community. The future of transportation will not be in Internal Combustion Engines. Computerized electric drive trains are where we are going for now, and Toyota, Honda, and to a lesser extent Ford are getting valuable hands on training for their service people.
     
  20. MSantos

    MSantos EcoAccelerometry

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2006
    576
    249
    1
    Location:
    Canada, Winnipeg
    Vehicle:
    2018 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Technology
    OK, so I had a couple of things to sort things out with my wife. In the process she opted for another Honda Civic Hybrid for herself... so I went to the dealership and ordered a 2007 model. We expect it to arrive in a few weeks.

    But, guess what else did I manage to also get last week?

    Well... I managed to order a Package A 2007 prius for company use. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

    Unfortunately the wait for the new company vehicle is a little longer. I was quoted a 2 month wait for a 2007 Classic Silver metallic Prius. :blink:

    Since we are coming to another end-of-lease at the company sometime next year, I may just end up ordering a second one later on too. :p

    Now, the thing that really ticks me off, is at first, that some of the folks at the office will just kill the Prius' mileage. In preparation, I am going to offer a few lunch-and-learns to evangilise Xcel's (Wayne) article hypermiling principles, plus a few other ones that I will add along the way. I hope it works. Any other sugestions?


    Anyhow, thanks for your help. I can't wait to start posting the Prius-II milleage at the Green Hybrid database.

    Cheers;


    MS