Lots of Warning Lights -- yikes!

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Care, Maintenance and Troubleshooting' started by Paige, Apr 5, 2016.

  1. Paige

    Paige Junior Member

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    Hi All,
    My 2005 Prius (130,000) has been fine -- except for some uneven idling and random revving of the engine which I have been meaning to get checked out. (These are intermittent and short lasting)

    Yesterday, weatherwise, here in CT was certainly the worst day of the year. Basically, freezing rain for hours. I drove home from work at 3:30. Everything was fine. Got back in the car at 5:30 for an evening event and that's when the warning lights were came on: the red (or is it yellow?) Triangle with the exclamation point, the engine maintanance, there was another I don't remember, but worst of all on the info panel, the hybrid indicator, which when I looked it up in the manual said: take to dealer.

    I was reading the sticky note about common problems. Is it possible this is an auxiliary battery (not the hybrid battery) problem? Is it possible ice got somewhere it shouldn't have? And most important, can I at least drive it to my mechanic without killing the car?

    Thanks in advance!
    Page
     
  2. cyberpriusII

    cyberpriusII Prodigyplace says I'm Super Kris

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    Heat, Cold and Vibration are supposedly the enemies of batteries.

    You had cold with the freezing rain. You have vibration with the rough idle :D:D:D:whistle::whistle: (O.K. ,maybe not the rough idle).

    No one here can absolutely say for complete certain fact that it would be O.K. to driver (except maybe Patrick Wong or Bob Wilson), but why don't you check the 12v before you do anything else. Easy instructions on this forum and on YouTube. Get a multmeter and check at the jump point under the hood. Very quick and easy.

    Also, you can probably correct the idle issue by cleaning the throttle body and MAF.. That would be about $8 in cleaner and 20 minutes in labor on your part.

    Oh, if it is the original 12v, I don't think I would even bother to check it. Just replace it. Easy enough job, also. So, say I who was terrified when I did it...:rolleyes:
    kris
     
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  3. exstudent

    exstudent Senior Member

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    If the HV Battery is original, I will speculate that the HV Battery is going out: 11years old, 130K+ miles.
    Did you notice the Energy Monitor do some big quick swings of purple to fully green?

    How old is the 12V battery. If its the original factory installed battery, yeah, past time replace. But check the voltage after the car has sat (ideally overnight), with a load [ie, push Power Button twice (IG-ON mode) & keep foot off brake, or turn on headlights].

    How far away is the mechanic? 1-3miles? Many many miles away? Only you can answer that risk:benefit.
    Do you not have AAA or towing through your car insurance?

    It sounds like you do not have an OBD-2 code reader. Maybe a friend does, and ideally the mini VCI cable w/ Techstream software, to fully read all of the Prius codes. Universal code readers can't read all of the Prius specific codes.

    How is the oil level in the car? Are you aware that the car does burn oil? If you are not topping the oil level off, and it got below the bottom dimple mark on the oil dip stick, you allowed your engine to experience excessive wear.

    Low Oil Pressure Warning Light.jpg
    FYI, this is a low oil pressure warning light, NOT a low oil level light. Excessive engine wear is occurring, and will lead to an early engine death. Yes, a low oil level will cause this too, but you should have been checking the engine oil level on a regular basis and topping off, to bring the oil mark on the dipstick to the top dimple mark, preventing this light from being able to occur due to insufficient oil.
     
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  4. Paige

    Paige Junior Member

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    Wow, huge thx to both posters. I will be home in a couple hours. Hopefully someone will have a multimeter to check with. Btw, the 12v battery was replaced when II bought it. I've had it just three years. And I do have AAA, just would make it a lot easier to get to work if I can drive. My mechanic is 8 miles away. I will check the oil right away. Thx again!!!!
    Paige
     
  5. Paige

    Paige Junior Member

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    Thanks for your reply.....but I can't find the directions for replacing the battery. Does anyone know where it is?
    Paige
     
  6. cyberpriusII

    cyberpriusII Prodigyplace says I'm Super Kris

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  7. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    Might be.
    Yes, for example water may have gotten into a spark plug well.

    Well, you won't make the problem worse by trying to drive the car, but who knows whether you will make it there or not. Just have your cellphone charged up and ready to call for a towing service if needed.
     
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  8. Paige

    Paige Junior Member

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    Hi Patrick,
    Thanks so much for the response. I have new information. It's not good. First the weather has improved and the lights are still on. I have included 2 photos to show the indicator lights. I took it to my mechanic and he put it on a computer and the computer said it is the hybrid battery that is bad.
    I asked him to check the 12V which he did, but from the front of the car. It first read 12.2. The mechanic then "put a load on it" whatever that means and it read 8.0 I have NO Problem starting it and both he and the parts person at TOyota said that I shouldn't change it b/c I have no problem starting it.
    Question: 1) are there not aftermarket hybrid batteries and what is your opinion of them?
    Photos below. Again, thank you!
    Paigeg

    WP_20160406_001.jpg WP_20160406_003.jpg
     
  9. Paige

    Paige Junior Member

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    THANK you cyberprius!!!!
    :rolleyes:
     
  10. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    1. Yes, there are. My opinion is not good.

    Please find out what the DTC were (diagnostic trouble codes) and post them.

    It really sounds like your car needs a new 12V battery based upon the reported voltage measurements.
     
  11. Paige

    Paige Junior Member

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    Hi Patrick,
    It was the P0A80. :(
    Are there directions somewhere for how to swap out a bad hybrid battery for a used one? This wouldbe for my mechanic.
    Thx,
    Paige
     
  12. Patrick Wong

    Patrick Wong DIY Enthusiast

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    A used battery (as opposed to a remanufactured one) is a reasonable choice if you buy a battery from a G3 Prius and have the 28 modules moved into your car's battery case. The 2G modules are getting old, 7 years minimum, so they would not be my first choice.

    The directions are at techinfo.toyota.com. Of course if you search PC you can find many posts from members sharing their experience.
     
  13. Paige

    Paige Junior Member

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    The directions are at techinfo.toyota.com. Of course if you search PC you can find many posts from members sharing their experience.[/QUOTE]

    I tried a couple of times searching PC -- maybe I didn't use good search terms. But thank you.
    Paige
     
  14. Jeff54

    Jeff54 Junior Member

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    I had the same lights go on recently and finally the POA80 conformation for a hybrid battery. I got one off of craig's list, remanufactured with 3 year warranty delivered and installed at my home @$1500. My 2005 with 210,000 miles is great now.

    In the mean time, You can drive it for short periods by unplugging both of the connections on the 12V bat wait a minute and replace the plugs but those lights will come back on. I did this a few times, and my wife, who normally drives it to work and back, 18 miles 1 way, drove it the first time back and forth and the 3rd time the lights came back, which seems to put it in limp mode. She didn't drive it again but, I kept testing and after disconnecting the battery, you can see the wide fluxuations of charge the bad hybrid battery makes, but, otherwise it seems to go ok, until lights come back and into limp mode again. You can drive it in limp mode too.. Also I'd give your 12v bat a good charge because it is low which, accordingly, if you're not driving it for 20-30 minute periods it'll lose it's peak charge.

    It also turns out that inside of the battery pack the center modules are usually the trouble because it's gets the hottest for longer periods there. You'll prob find plenty installers on Craig's list but the guys who do a quick few cell replacement aren't worth it verses good companies who remanufacture with full replacement warranty sold to guys, on C/L or, who'll service, install and do it again if it fails.
     
    #14 Jeff54, Apr 7, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2016
  15. exstudent

    exstudent Senior Member

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    New OEM HV Pack for $2071 (requires tranfering ECUs from old pack into new pack) w/ 1yr warranty (3yrs if installed by Toyota) vs $1500 "remanufactured" Craigst List w/ a 3yr warranty.

    Which one do you think will be trouble free? OP went 11yrs/130K miles on the original HV Battery. A new replacement will likely give him the same longevity, more or less.

    You wouldn't expect a used tire to give you the same longevity as a new tire? Assuming of course the used tires is less than 10/32inch tread depth, the usual new tire tread depth.

    $500 price difference is very small. OP went 11years.
    $500/11years = $45.45/year. $45.45/12months =$3.79/month.
     
  16. Jeff54

    Jeff54 Junior Member

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    Depends on what you get and, you're citing a pack that needs to be installed verses a whole unit completely rebuilt exchanged and installed with 3 year warranty. AND during the 3 year period the warranty covers all. If it fails, all I do is call and another battery is delivered and installed. Toyota and most any mechanic is NOT going to do that.

    I do not know the previous history of the car as I acquired it @ 200,100 and later discovered some lose bolts on the bat unit and a few inside of the tire compartment so, I spect some monkey stuck a few modules in just before I bought it. Otherwise was one owner dealer maintained up too 200,000 and carfax did not have any notes repairing or replacing the original. So, as far as I know the original 2005 bat got 200k.

    Even brand new doesn't mean you'll get 30k 130k or 230K on it. Actually the miles you get has a lot to do with the driver's conditions. Regardless, you're leaving out and average of $300- $500 installation costs whether Toyota does it or not but battery warranty just the same as mine 3 years?.


    As for trouble free, Almost a month after my remanufactured battery was installed, just last Monday, I took it in for a thorough analysis and it's like new. Alternatively, whoever the monkey was that fixed it for the dealer I bought mine from, just goes to show that, sticking a few modules in doesn't cut the cake.


    And DIY it's only $1,000 +/- which may be available at a parts store near you because they'll also have a core deposit @ $800-$1000 So you have to get the core refund after sending it back to the supplier. But that's easier if you can get one local.

    You failed to mention core depost too.

    Here's one of several links for the battery I got which is made by CAREDONE "Cardone 5H-4002" @ Rock Auto: A-1 CARDONE 5H4002 Battery | RockAuto

    This battery:
    Product Detail


    There's even two parts suppliers in my town who has em too. 'The parts house' Caredone is in the top 60% of the nations parts sellers.

    I'm good with that, and your tire comparison doesn't cut the cake too, moreover, you're exaggerating to 'win' a point, ( Don't tell me tell him, genius) while I'm simply trying to help point the guy in possibilities, .

    Also, ran a history and reference check on the guy who installed mine. I don't just hire anybody from craigs list.
     
    #16 Jeff54, Apr 7, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2016
  17. exstudent

    exstudent Senior Member

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    That is correct regarding a Toyota battery, only the part (HV Battery) would be covered under the warranty. Labor is not covered and would be an additional expense.

    Yes, the comparison wasn't equal, and can't be equal as Toyota does not sell a fully assembled HV Pack, as a new pack lacks the HV ECUs. Many DIY folks simply transfer the ECUs w/o problem. The dealers will try to sell NEW ECUs in a HV Battery replacement, to increase their profit margin.

    I agree w/ your deduction. Someone (original owner or the used car lot) DIY or paid someone to swap in a module (or two) to make the car saleable, hoping an unsuspecting buyer wouldn't open the lid on the HV case to examine serial numbers. Shame you did not do this, as the module swap would have been discovered; you would be in a position to point this out to the seller, and negotiate a further price decrease, as they clearly did not disclose this to you for obvious reasons: sold as is, and don't want to lower price further.

    Should you be in the market for another used hybrid (any manufacture), open the HV Battery case to examine the serial numbers, to uncover the band-aid repair.

    Sounds like you did not take out the spare to examine the spare compartment and spare itself. Next time, you probably will.

    Yes, brand new does not guarantee you many many miles. However, honestly ask yourself, which battery do you believe will give you the greatest longevity: NEW vs rebuilt/remanufactured. Many here will say new. Even the various HV battery rebuilder's here on PC, have this same belief. But because of cost, some owners choose a rebuilt/remanufactured over a new pack. For the OP (Original Poster), his Prius has many more miles left, as he is at 130K miles, and a new HV Pack makes sense.

    Yes, environment (terrain and ambient temperature) where the vehicle is driven has the greatest impact on battery longevity. Well documented here on Prius Chat.

    Correct. Installation costs was overlooked on my part.
    New HV Battery installed by a Toyota dealer gets you 3 year warranty. Installed by anyone other than Toyota only gets you 1 year warranty. OP would have to make that cost/benefit determination. Many here, myself included, would be fine to DIY resulting in a 1 year warranty.

    Good for you, that the remanufactured battery appears to be holding up well. May it give you a long service life.

    Sounds like you bought this car from an independent used dealer lot, not a Toyota dealership. I can't imagine a Toyota dealership doing this b/c of liability. Is it possible, yes, but unlikely. More likely that they would take the car in as a trade-in and dump off to an auction. Besides, I have never seen a manufacture dealership (Toyota, Honda, Ford, GM, VW, etc), sell any high mileage used cars on their lot.

    Yes, neglected to mention core deposit, b/c its really not necessary. Those who are unaware of it learn the concept fast. Pay it at the time of purchase, and return later, with the core, for the core charge refund. Or, they come back with the core, at the time of purchase, to avoid the core charge altogether. Something I think you would agree is easy to understand.

    Correct, I do not belong to Mensa. I am confident I would not score in the top two percent of an accredited Intelligence Quotient test.

    My intention was the same as your as yours: "point the guy in possibilities." You made a decision to go rebuilt, and others would probably do the same, given your 200K miles. OP only has 130K miles. IMO (In My Opinion), a new HV Pack would be in his best interests. You disagree with this and that's fine. We will continue to live happily ever, despite our opinions and mere existence.

    OP gets notified of any additions or replies to this thread, unless he turns off all notifications. Posts 1-13 lacked any mention of any HV Battery: new, used, rebuilt. Your post #14, was the first. Yes, I could have just added, but replying obviously notifies you as well. Intent was to point out the small dollar difference. Yes, there are some other differences, but most here on PC see those as small in the big scheme of things.

    Tire analogy was for simplicity, and to provide an easy to understand visual of NEW vs rebuilt/remanufactured battery. You diaspprove.

    Good for you.

    Just be as thorough on your next used hybrid vehicle purchase, to catch telltale signs that you missed on the current vehicle: module serial numbers, loose HV Battery case nuts/bolts, nuts/bolts in spare wheel well area.
     
    #17 exstudent, Apr 8, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2016
  18. M in KC

    M in KC Active Member

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    Paige, you can also do a Youtube search for the same subject. There are several vids of guys changing HV batteries and/or swapping HV battery modules as you navigate through your repair options. Threads like yours are becoming ever more common place on this board for this vintage of vehicle. It's just a sign of the times I'm afraid. I just had to replace my HV battery last month in our '05. FWIW I ended up swallowing at the dealer, for a dealer installed new HV battery, which is sooooo not my style. But in the end for me it was best decision.
     
  19. Paige

    Paige Junior Member

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    Thank you, both Jeff and exstudent, for your posts. I am a woman btw, not that that matters, lol! From my research it seems like there are many options: replacing bad cells will "new"; new battery; used battery; "reconditioned" battery.

    I am in CT and a short search turned up several used, salvage batteries.

    Interesting discussions. What do you guys think of "reconditioning"? As in Prolong Battery Systems. Extending the life of your hybrid. – Hybrid Automotive

    I'm not sure what to do, but if I spent $300 and got another year, that might be worth it. I would trade it in at that point, maybe. Or if I got a salvage battery and used the reconditioner on it to extend the life that might be worth the cost.

    I'm worried that something else will go, like the inverter or transaxel. If that happened, spending the $3000 it will take for the dealer to install a new one -- after I paid 10,000 for the car three years ago, it's a lot of money. And I don't have a lot of money. The car actually has !45,000 miles, although not sure that makes a difference.

    I live in Southeaster CT. It's not extremely hilly if that's what you mean by terrain. We have pretty up and down weather It gets very cold a few days a year, and it gets very hot a few days a year.
     
  20. Stevewoods

    Stevewoods Senior Member

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    WHOA NELLIE

    I don't want to put words in Patrick Wong's mouth; but I am reading his posts and he seems to be saying he would not bet it is the traction battery -- yet.

    He may have changed his mind after you posted the DTC, but maybe not. In another thread he mentions

    "DTC P0A80 is logged by the battery ECU. It is possible that ECU is at fault."


    Irregardless, ignoring the traction battery for the moment, he seems to be saying your 12v needs replacing based on the voltage measurements you cited. And, I think he did mention replace the 12-volt before doing anything else.

    Mr. Wong, If I AM wrong about what you posted, I apologize. But, seeming that Mr. Wong thinks a 12v is needed anyway, I would go along with his advice and replace it first -- you need it anyway.

    Who knows, all your problems could be solved without messing with the traction battery. From the many posts I have read, the Prius will throw lots of strange lights, etc. if the 12v is not up to par.

    Just seems the logical way to go about it. To me, anyway.

    Finally, and then I will shut up :whistle: --- I read this on another forum -- don't know how true or not -- it is.

    From GreenHybrid - The Interactive Hybrid Car Resource
    ********************************************
    #7
    GeorgiaHybrid[​IMG]
    Super Moderator
    2008 Toyota Camry


    Real Name: David
    Location: NW Georgia
    Hybrids: Camry
    Posts: 1,229

    [​IMG] Re: P0A80-- Replace Hybrid Battery Pack
    Randy,

    That code (P0A80) is a 2 part code that will require a better scanner than you have access to. If you have a pro level scanner, you must clear the code and drive the car for 10 minutes to see if a P0A80-123 code is set. If it is, then you either have a problem with the battery or with the battery smart unit.

    The reason for the two part test is exactly what you have experienced. The battery is showing too much of a voltage differential between battery blocks and that can be caused by having the car parked for an extended period. By making you drive the car for the second part of the test, if gives the computer time to recharge and balance the battery blocks.

    For the test, you compare the voltages between the 17 battery blocks (odd to even) and is one set compared is off by less than .3 volts, the battery will need to be replaced. If the voltages difference is greater than .3 volts, the smart battery unit will need to be replaced.

    That test is ONLY done however after clearing the codes the first time, driving the car for 10 minutes and checking to see if P0A80-123 is showing up. If it doesn't, you are fine and can go back to driving your car as before.

    To save a trip to the dealer, clear the code and see if it returns, if it does, go the dealer
     
    #20 Stevewoods, Apr 8, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2016
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