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Man this car does not like the cold.

Discussion in 'Newbie Forum' started by Robert L, Jan 28, 2009.

  1. Robert L

    Robert L New Member

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    Location:
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    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    Living in Maine we see some real cold temps here. In the last two weeks It has gone down to -31F in my yard in the morning 2 or 3 time. It is -10F almost every other morning. The 06 Prius starts fine but the cabin heater is not up to the job at all. It is D**N cold in the car and it never really gets warm on my 17 mile drive to work. The only way to get any real heat is to set the cabin air to rec. not fresh. That works for about 3 min then the windows fog up. Also the rear window wiper makes an unreal noise if I try and use it below -5 or so.

    My 98 Audi A4 was great in that weather. No problems keeping it hot in the cabin. Also on days with temps of -15 for a low and +5 for a high it gets the same milage as my Audi and BMW M3 in the same weather. I am seeing 25 to 29 MPG in the Prius in the last 2 weeks driving in a normal Maine winter.

    This car is starting to lose some of its luster with me. Starting to think about parking this thing and driving the Audi again. I still am not sure if I am going to keep this car or not. I may just put it up forsale and go back to the Audi in the winter and the BMW in the summer like before.

    What is the deal? I know some of you run block heaters but that is not really going to work for me as I can not plug it in at work. Also that is not going to keep me warm going down the road.

    Am I missing something here?
     
  2. kinghuang

    kinghuang Member

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    Have you blocked your grills? That'll help a bit.
     
  3. Stefx

    Stefx Member

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    Well in Quebec we had -40F weather.
    Instead of taking 5mins for hot air to come out the vents if it was 20F outside, it took 10mins... but the air was hot. After another 5mins the cabin was comfortable. My block heater is broken, but with it it would have cut down the warming time by a few mins.

    I have the upper grille blocked with pipe foam. Try it. Easy and cheap to do, and apparently quite effective. The Block Heater is great too. Even if you can't plug at work, it is generally colder early in the morning than in the afternoon, so you would improve your comfort 50% of the time when it matters most.

    Regarding fuel efficiency, my two previous cars (MazdaSpeed6 and Subaru WRX, both turbo) were getting 20mpg in the summer and 16mpg in the winter. (They didn't warm up much faster than the Prius at -40F .)
    My prius goes from 57mpg in the summer to 35-45mpg in the winter.
    Any combustion engine car will see a fuel efficiency decrease at cold temperatures.

    Also, I don't know if it helps, but I just set that AC temp way up until it says "HI" (which is right after 32C)
     
  4. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    -22°F for me last week. 10 minutes into the drive, I'm getting decent heat. You won't be able to melt stuff like some cars, but engine startup is definitely superior. This is my 9th Winter driving a Prius. There's no contest that the hybrid system provides an advantage for cold starts after sitting in an artic parking lot all day.

    Blocking the grille is a must for creature comfort when dealing with such extreme temperatures. Fortunately, most people don't have to.

    As for rear wiper rattle, I've never experienced that. In fact, not a peep. Perhaps your locking clamp isn't secure.
    .
     
  5. JimboK

    JimboK One owner, low mileage

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    Can you plug in at home? If so, I highly recommend one. You will notice substantial improvement on the trip to work, especially in your cold climate, with both fuel economy and cabin heating.

    I agree with the others that blocking the grille will help too.
     
  6. nerfer

    nerfer A young senior member

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    You might want to check that your coolant heat storage pump (that moves the engine coolant to and from the 'thermos') is working. Not keeping the coolant warm when the car is off means it will take longer to warm up.

    My 2006 started making extra noise last winter when the pump was working (right after start up or on shut down). Then this last summer Toyota came out with a service bulletin on this (Google 'TSB thermos'). This winter when it gets cold (below zero 'F, or -15'C) my Prius wasn't pumping the coolant at all, apparently leaving it wherever it last was (not sure if that means I was driving without coolant, but on my short drive in cold temperatures don't really need it anyway). On really cold days the engine would start up within a second after hitting the power button, not waiting the usual 7 seconds. I took back the ScanGauge from my wife's car and made some measurements. Finally got the pump replaced yesterday (under warranty), it was a 10-day wait for the part. Now I'm making some more measurements and will report back.

    I also block the grill. Pretty cheap mod. (Along with my other cheap mod, a folded piece of black paper taped to the dash to stop that annoying green reflection in the windshield).
     
  7. thepolarcrew

    thepolarcrew Senior Member

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    We garage ours so there's about a 20 /30 degree difference at night. She starts fine and puts out heat. Plugged it in a couple of nights and the wife said she didn't notice any change. Haven't blocked the grille, (no scan gauge) and our millage dropped to 39.4 this winter.

    It warms up enough you get a bit of a build up on the bottom of the wheel at night. Need to get it in to a car wash where it can melt the ice in the wheels. Picked up a nail a while back. (slight vibration) Hard to tell in the arctic.
     
  8. finman

    finman Senior Member

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    seat heaters...ahhhh...seat heaters! If you are anywhere near the Black Hills of South Dakota, I can install a pair in yer front seats...quick warm-up for persons...won't help the low MPG...

    seriously, if you want a warmer experience, look for a car installer (stereo shop, maybe even a dealer) to install seat heaters. Contact PDA, Inc. in Englewood, CO for parts. They are on the web as well. Good luck...winter does suck sometimes.

    And on a side note...the reason your gas-only cars heat up faster...they are BIG time heat generators...not as efficient as the Prius. lower MPG, higher emissions, and yes, better heaters. Stick with the Prius, it's worth it once you get the right winter accessories (block heater, snow tires, and seat heaters).
     
  9. richard schumacher

    richard schumacher shortbus driver

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    Check the simple things first: for example, the engine thermostat may be stuck open. There are lots of Priuses in equally cold climates and there is no general complaint about lack of cabin heat.
     
  10. Robert L

    Robert L New Member

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    WOW thanks for all the great replys guys. Looks like I have some stuff to check. I guess I should look into a block heater also. Where is a good place to find one and how hard is it to install (I have well above average mechanical skills, Machinist for a living)? Do you guys do them as a DIY?

    I am going to try blocking the grill. Anyone have a picture of a car with the pipe ins on it? Not a big deal just trying to picture it in my head.

    Thanks again for all the great info. Great site.
     
  11. donee

    donee New Member

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    Hi RobertL,

    At that cold a temperature, your going to need to grill block. The Atkinson cycle engine just does not waste enough heat into the water jacket for you to allow it to be dumped out into the air. With variable temps, like here in Chicagoland, one needs a temp gauge add-on to run high blockage. Below freezing, you should be safe with total upper grill block, and a 50 % grill block on the lower (bigger) grill. And below 0 F a 75 % grill block would be safe. Block the passenger side of the grill. The transmission is cooled by airflow over it from the grill, and its on the driver side.

    I am running a 90 % grill block right now, and cruise on the highway below 55 mph in the morning, and do a pulse and glide slow secondary road route on the way home. Temps have been between 0 and 15 in the morning, and up to 30 in the evening. With the temperature gauge, I use the heater control to keep the engine down below 90 C. If I left the heater on all the time in the 0 to 10 F weather, the coolant temps would drop down below 70 F, which would cause the engine to run at stops, and not glide. When the outdoor temp is up near 30 F, I have to turn up the climate control thermostat, and at times crack two windows to get cooling air through the cabin keep the coolant temp down below 90 C during a hill climbing portion of my drive home.

    When we had the -18 F weather here a week or so ago, I ran the heater full time, but with a 98 % grill block after 2 hours of engine block heating. At start up the engine block and the coolant resoivor were 16 C. The coolant did not get much above 80 C, and the interior of the car was warmer than what I am used to running in warmer temps, however. Which was neccasary to keep the windows defogged with such cold outside air.

    Typically, what I do in the above 0 F weather is hit the front defrost button on the steering wheel twice when I see the coolant temp in the high 80's. This turns on the climate control in the state it was left. I leave it in Auto, and 65 F. This way dehumdification function of the climate control is active. Then when the coolant gets down around 82 ish, I ll hit the climate button on the MFD, then the OFF button.

    Put a thick wool blanket on the toneau cover in the hatch. It will help absorb humidity, and help to keep the rear window defogged, and if its dark colored, when the sun is out it will dry out. The rear window degogger seems to work better with the blanket there , but then, it could just be real dry here now too.

    It would be nice if the climate control had thermostat settings down to 50 F before it goes MAX COLD for short distance winter driving. When one is in their winter gear, 50 F is just about right. And many times, one does not need warmer to keep the windows defogged.
     
  12. john1701a

    john1701a Prius Guru

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    Yup, there's photos in the User-Guide.

    .
     
  13. donee

    donee New Member

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    Search around on here for install instructions. It took me some time to install the block heater, but there is a guy who actually did a block heater installation tour of the US, taking his family along even. It takes him about 1/2 an hour, with all the practice. They get allot of free Pizza as a reward! Anyway, there are two ways to do it. One way requires long arms, or a lift and its done from below. The other way requies skinny forearms and is done from the top of the engine. That is way I did it, but not having exactly skinny forearms, it took a long time, and they were all scratched up afterward.

    I am not a machinist, but I have some nice toys here (Schaublin 102, and homemade servo 3 axis Vertical mill CNC with ballscrews using EMC2 controller).
     
  14. Robert L

    Robert L New Member

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    Wow great post donee. Alot of good info. Thanks very much.