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Market ≠ Economy ... Economy ≠ Market

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by Zeppo Shanski, Sep 2, 2020.

  1. Zeppo Shanski

    Zeppo Shanski Active Member

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    #1 Zeppo Shanski, Sep 2, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2020
  2. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    I agree with your title, the Market is most definitely not the economy.
    Other than a small note near the end of the linked article, there is really not much about the title.

    On the bright side, it is nice to see Exxon being dropped from the Dow.:)
     
  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    it means a lot to people looking forward to retirement
     
  4. Zeppo Shanski

    Zeppo Shanski Active Member

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  5. Zeppo Shanski

    Zeppo Shanski Active Member

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  6. John321

    John321 Senior Member

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    I think the older you get the more the Stock Market looks like a Casino where there are small winners and losers but the Casino which controls things is always the big winner.
     
  7. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    nice market today :eek: buy!!!:D
     
  8. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    I suspect part of the explanation has to do with the long trend, over my lifetime, away from defined-benefit retirement plans and toward defined-contribution plans, IRAs, 401(k)s, and the like. In the former picture, market investing decisions were being made mainly by professional money managers, people who had probably studied finance and economics, and whose clients were large organizations that knew what to watch for and would hold them accountable.

    In the new picture, pretty much everybody starts a job and gets pointed at the market and told "go make that work out for your retirement, good luck". Few have studied econ or finance, and few have really saved enough that the long-term historical expectation of seven percent compound growth will be enough to keep them warm and fed. So, many are desperate to believe in market miracles, secrets of doing better than average, and rosy snake oil about the economy.

    When those are enough of the people moving enough of the money that's being invested, it becomes possible for snake oil to move the market.
     
  9. Zeppo Shanski

    Zeppo Shanski Active Member

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    Stock market bloodbath: Dow and Nasdaq plummet in the worst day since June - CNN
    Stock market bloodbath: Dow and Nasdaq plummet in the worst day since June

    Stock market news live updates: Stocks walloped as September selling sets in; tech stocks swoon
    Stock market news live updates: Stocks walloped as September selling sets in; tech stocks swoon

    Stock market news live updates: Stock futures open lower after worst selloff since June
    Stock market news live updates: Stock futures open lower after worst selloff since June
     
  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    buy! buy now! bye bye now :cool:
     
  11. Zeppo Shanski

    Zeppo Shanski Active Member

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  12. Zeppo Shanski

    Zeppo Shanski Active Member

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  13. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i lost my shorts the last two days. luckily, i had put on clean underwear
     
  14. Zeppo Shanski

    Zeppo Shanski Active Member

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    ~ Bisco ... maybe think about a dollar-cost averaging plan.

    Dollar-cost averaging (DCA) is an investment strategy in which an investor divides up the total amount to be invested across periodic purchases of a target asset in an effort to reduce the impact of volatility on the overall purchase.

    Is Dollar Cost Averaging a good idea?
    Advocates of dollar-cost averaging claim it's a good risk-reduction tool because tiptoeing in a bit at a time reduces the chance that you'll put all your money into stocks just before the market slumps

    Does dollar cost averaging make sense?
    If the thought of investing your money all at once - and potentially seeing it fall in value shortly afterwards - fills you with anxiety and paralyzes you from investing it at all, then dollar cost averaging can make sense. ... If you choose to dollar cost average, plan to get your funds invested within a year.

    Why Dollar Cost Averaging is bad?
    Market Rises Over Time
    Another disadvantage of dollar-cost averaging is that the market tends to go up over time. This means that if you invest a lump sum earlier, it is likely to do better than smaller amounts invested over a period of time.

    Is it better to dollar cost average or lump sum?
    Dollar-cost averaging vs investing a lump sum
    There is no one perfect way to invest cash every time. ... A Vanguard study actually showed that investing a lump sum outperforms dollar-cost averaging 64% of the time over six months and 92% of the time over 36-months, assuming a 60%/40% portfolio of stocks and bonds.




    PLEASE ... Do whatever it is that makes you happy. I just made this post to make a post. I'm bored and I had an argument with my wife.
     
  15. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    that is a very interesting strategy, thank you!
     
  16. mikefocke

    mikefocke Prius v Three 2012, Avalon 2011

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    The market goes up and the market goes down. There are boom and bust cycles. Tis ever thus. For every Tesla there is a GE.

    I never understood how, with so many out of work and the dole slackening, there could be a surge of buying enough to support the recent market rise. I was beginning to think I might have been wrong to have gone conservative.

    And then I think of all those still employed desperate for 401k returns. Where else can they put their money? And what other option does their investment vehicle offer them that has kept up with inflation over the long term? So they gamble.

    You'd have thought that the magic vaccine would have encouraged people. And then they might have thought of the reality that it will take a long time to figure out if it works and to persuade enough people to get it to allow a true return to normal. And still longer to generate the jobs needed for a full recovery.

    I haven't made a real move in the last year. Of course I did buy more of what I have with dividend money. I'm gonna stay that way and see how things turn out.
     
  17. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    market timing is a fools errand. you're either in or you're out. i'm thinking one more round of stimulus, then the crash, sometime after the second wave and re closings. the goverment can't stimulate forever. job losses will be horrific.
    on the plus side, i'm usually wrong.
     
  18. Zythryn

    Zythryn Senior Member

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    Time in the market beats trying to time the market(y)
     
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  19. Zeppo Shanski

    Zeppo Shanski Active Member

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  20. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    let's not, it's over, thankfully