1. Attachments are working again! Check out this thread for more details and to report any other bugs.

Maximizing MPG on Long Uphill Grades

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by withersea, Aug 2, 2006.

  1. withersea

    withersea DNF is better than DNS

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2006
    1,162
    7
    0
    Location:
    TN
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    III
    I have had the car now for approximately one month. My 33 mile drive to work has a couple of long uphill grades on the interstate. I'm currently averaging (computer) 47-48 MPG on the drive to work but coming home (more downhill) 49-50 MPG. Any tips for maximizing MPG's on those long high speed uphills?
     
  2. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    19,891
    1,192
    9
    Location:
    Nixa, MO
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Not much.
    1)If there's a downhill slope prior to the uphill grade and traffic isn't an issue you can try to glide/accelerate on the downhill and utilize that momentum to get you part way up the uphill section. I do this quite a lot on the hills in my area and am convinced it makes a big difference over time.

    2) Turn OFF the cruise control before you start the uphill or start accelerating slowly before the cruise kicks in. As you're aware there's a delay of 1-2mph before CC kicks in and when it does it accelerates quite aggressively to try to get back up to speed. If you can maintain the base speed at a lower fuel burn rate that will help a little.

    3) Lower your speed as much as reasonable and even allow the car to lose speed as you climb...again, traffic conditions permitting.

    My scenario....I glide/hyperstealth down a hill as I approach an uphill section. Maintaining a very gentle acceleration on the flat before the uphill to maintain speed I slowly let the speed bleed off as I go up the rise. Sometimes I can get over the smaller hills without applying significant ICE power, sometimes on a tall steep hill it just gets me 10% of the way up...but at least I wasn't having to apply full ICE power from the base of the hill to maintain speed. Then, traffic permitting, I let ~5mph bleed off as I approach the summit and then regain the speed slowly as I crest the hill and begin the next downhill section...

    This is going to have a subtle effect, but I think, if you track such, you'll notice an improvement in mpg of 2-4mpg over the next few tanks if you can do this approach.
     
  3. randreed

    randreed Same as it ever was . . .

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2006
    605
    1
    0
    Location:
    West Milford, NJ
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    II
    Timely advise - THANKS!

    I'm just about to head back to NJ from Boston and there are a LOT of hills on I-84. I used CC all the way here with windows open, and did not change my established 48.5 average. I'm going to follow your advice on the way back with windows up and AC on low to see if that combination makes a difference.
     
  4. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    19,891
    1,192
    9
    Location:
    Nixa, MO
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I didn't really mention my speeds here, perhaps I should.
    I allow my momentum to pick up as much as possible. On 55mph roads that sometimes means speeds of 80+mph by the time I hit the bottom of the hill (and that's using NO GAS power)! If you do not feel safe with that or there are other people on the road or many places where cars could enter PLEASE use your head and take safety into consideration first. I'd say that most of the time my speeds peak at 65-70mph on those 55mph roads and I let it blead off to around 45-50mph, but these are on rural roads in SW Missouri. On the highway/interstate I do allow momentum to pick up, but never let my speed drop below the limit (70mph on the freeway and 60mph on the hwys I usually drive).

    And yes, I think conservative use of the AC (78-80 degrees F on auto AC setting) with windows up is a bettery, more fuel efficient and more comfortable way to drive, esp. on the highway.
     
  5. mastergunnera8

    mastergunnera8 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2006
    93
    8
    0
    I turn my AC off just before the incline begins, then switch back on at cresting...
     
  6. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    19,891
    1,192
    9
    Location:
    Nixa, MO
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(mastergunnera8 @ Aug 2 2006, 09:38 AM) [snapback]296253[/snapback]</div>
    You can do that, but there's really not much point and the savings are negligible if any. The Prius auto-AC system will actually decrease the output of the AC during times of high demand, like acceleration. It doesn't turn it off completely to avoid the cabin warming up which would necessitate a higher AC output to cool it off again...as would occur if you turn it off completely.

    I used to do that too, but am convinced the benefit isn't there FE wise. That said, I DO think you can get a power boost by turning it off if you need it for a long steep climb.
     
  7. ken1784

    ken1784 SuperMID designer

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2003
    2,940
    1,365
    67
    Location:
    Yokohama, JAPAN
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(withersea @ Aug 2 2006, 11:00 PM) [snapback]296233[/snapback]</div>
    My bet is do not use the battery power, which means no yellow arrow from the battery on uphills.

    Ken@Japan
     
  8. randreed

    randreed Same as it ever was . . .

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2006
    605
    1
    0
    Location:
    West Milford, NJ
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    II
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ken1784 @ Aug 2 2006, 10:54 AM) [snapback]296263[/snapback]</div>
    That's an interesting idea - how can you force that to happen?
     
  9. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    19,891
    1,192
    9
    Location:
    Nixa, MO
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rand Reed @ Aug 2 2006, 09:56 AM) [snapback]296264[/snapback]</div>
    Search Dead banding or dead-banding on PC and you'll find tons of info. Basicly you just feather the gas pedal until all but the yellow arrows (ICE to wheels) disappear on the Energy display.

    While this is definately the single most fuel efficient way to go, it's completely impractial in real-world driving. All but the gentlest slopes will cause dramatic loss of speed due to the very low power output of the ICE in this situation. One could try it, but I think you'll have more frustration than you want for a tiny gain in mpg.
     
  10. jtullos

    jtullos New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2006
    172
    0
    0
    Location:
    Dayton, NV
    In my experience (approx. 3000-4000 ft. climbs at 55 MPH and 70 MPH), there are two types of climbs to consider. If it's done intelligently, and there are points where the climb levels off or even drops for a short distance (needed for trucks), then take advantage of that. Otherwise, accelerate a little more on the gentler slopes, but try to hold your speed on the long, steep slopes. If you've got a short but steep slope, go ahead and lose a little speed. But when you've got the worst ones to deal with, you just have to suck it up and remember that you will get wonderful mileage going back down the hill.
     
  11. darelldd

    darelldd Prius is our Gas Guzzler

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2006
    6,057
    389
    0
    Location:
    Northern CA
    Vehicle:
    2006 Prius
    I just turn off the gravity briefly. :D

    My EV experience supports Evan's method for sure. If you know you've got a reasonable downhill on the other side of the uphill, bleed off some speed (if safe!) until you crest the hill... turn the gravity back on now!... and regain the speed for free down the other side.
     
  12. hyo silver

    hyo silver Awaaaaay

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2005
    15,232
    1,563
    0
    Location:
    off into the sunset
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Aug 2 2006, 11:29 AM) [snapback]296295[/snapback]</div>
    You make anti-grav switches, too? How do you keep the magnetic field from inducing time disruptions in the flux capacitor's chronometer? :rolleyes:
     
  13. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    14,816
    2,498
    66
    Location:
    Far-North Chicagoland
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(darelldd @ Aug 2 2006, 10:29 AM) [snapback]296295[/snapback]</div>
    To that end, I recently had my after-market AgV switch installed: Antigravity Vehicle. Works like a charm. :)

    I hope you have found out that there's really not much you can do to maximize MPG on the long uphills. I would have expected to have learned some little nugget from Evan, but when he starts a reply with "not much" then I know it's not just me. :)

    My personal favorite - today anyway - is to make sure that as long as the engine is running, there's some charge going to the battery. You might not always get this, when by adjusting pressure on the pedal, you might find that you can from time to time. The reason for this is that as long as the engine is going to be running, I might as well be getting something for it. Also, just because a lot of acceleration is required at the base of the hill doesn't mean that you have to maintain that pressure all the way up. I have a couple hills on my daily commute that are brutal when starting but I can let up slowly on the pedal while climbing and see that my speed is still increasing and my "instant mileage" is also going up.

    I've tried just about every suggestion given above. And depending on the situation, the one you use will change from incline to incline. So like everything else, the best advice is to take notes on all the suggestions and add them to your "toolbox" to have when you need them.
     
  14. randreed

    randreed Same as it ever was . . .

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2006
    605
    1
    0
    Location:
    West Milford, NJ
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    II
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Rand Reed @ Aug 2 2006, 10:23 AM) [snapback]296243[/snapback]</div>
    OK - drove back from Boston yesterday in the blazing heat - left the AC on at 79 for the whole trip - I laid off my lead-foot tendencies and kept my speed right around the limits - I also experimented with "gliding" (switching to Neutral) on every downhill stretch that I could do it safely (most) and took it easy going up hills - the results are the trip was just a bit slower (but not bad at all because it was also more relaxed) and my FE increased to 48.8MPG (my all-time high). Thanks for all the advice!
     
  15. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2004
    14,816
    2,498
    66
    Location:
    Far-North Chicagoland
    Vehicle:
    2017 Prius Prime
    Model:
    Prime Advanced
    BRILLIANT!!

    Way to go!
     
  16. hobbit

    hobbit Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2005
    4,089
    468
    0
    Location:
    Bahstahn
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Using Neutral on high-speed downhills still burns gas. Better to use
    warp-stealth [ http://techno-fandom.org/~hobbit/cars/warpstealth.html ].
    Properly done, the savings can be significant. That's 0 ms of fuel
    injection versus the 2 ms it takes to idle at 1000 rpm...
    .
    _H*
     
  17. EricGo

    EricGo New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2005
    1,805
    0
    0
    Location:
    Albuquerque, NM (SouthWest US)
    I occasionaly drive a five mile incline of ~ 1000 ft -- for albuquerque locals, I25 to Tramway using Tramway Blvd.

    Battery SOC management on a long incline does not differ conceptually from flat: Make sure the ICE is in it's sweet power output range of > 1500 rpm. For instance, you will want to avoid starting an incline with high SOC and then letting the battery bleed off SOC while the engine turns slowly. Easily fixed with a strong will and right foot ;)

    I'd be interested to know form instrumented people whether there is a plateau of battery discharge at a constant SOC, that declines with progressive power demand. My MFD says yes, but I cannot quantitate it that way.
     
  18. randreed

    randreed Same as it ever was . . .

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2006
    605
    1
    0
    Location:
    West Milford, NJ
    Vehicle:
    2008 Prius
    Model:
    II
    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(hobbit @ Aug 3 2006, 03:45 PM) [snapback]297194[/snapback]</div>
    I was trying to find that "warp-stealth" sweet spot but it's very difficult if not impossible at interstate highway speeds (55-65MPH) so I was putting it in Neutral in order to glide as much as possible. I was also watching the MFD while doing this and listening - the ICE would turn OFF while I was in Neutral. It was not idling during those times.

    On the other hand, at lower speeds around town, I've become fairly good at finding the sweet spot, and I use it a lot.
     
  19. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    19,891
    1,192
    9
    Location:
    Nixa, MO
    Vehicle:
    2004 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    The ICE definately doesn't turn off in neutral, it may be very quiet and low fuel burn, but it's not off.

    As far as the hyperstealth, you needn't see the arrows completely disappear, you just need to see them switching back and forth with a trend toward slightly more regeneration.
     
  20. ken1784

    ken1784 SuperMID designer

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2003
    2,940
    1,365
    67
    Location:
    Yokohama, JAPAN
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    The "warp-stealth" is almost impossible or very short of time on flat road. It only works on highway downhill.
    However, who does spin ICE? MG1 does. It looks huge 5A to 10A (1kW to 2kW) is consumed just to spin ICE.
    Also, it is not a good idea to shift in N.
    My bet is to use CC on flat or downhill.

    Ken@Japan