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Melting Greenland ice could raise ocean seven meters

Discussion in 'Environmental Discussion' started by Wiyosaya, May 2, 2007.

  1. Wiyosaya

    Wiyosaya Member

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  2. TimBikes

    TimBikes New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wiyosaya @ May 2 2007, 09:43 AM) [snapback]434026[/snapback]</div> This is a typical "the sky is falling" global warming story.

    The current melt rate of Greenland is contributing 0.5 mm per year to sea level rise. So to hit that 7 meters, you are looking at sustained melt over a period of 14,000 years. Or, to hit this in say the next 500 years you would have to increase present melt rates by nearly 3000%.

    Despite the article above and what Gore says in "An Inconvenient Truth", this is not a scientifically supported scenario. IPCC #4 projects a sea level rise from all causes (i.e., not just Greenland but all factors including non-anthropogenic) in the range of around 20 to 60 cm by 2100. There is simply no scientifically credible scenario that I am aware of that is predicting a complete meltdown of Greenland anytime soon.
     
  3. finman

    finman Senior Member

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    I hope the sky isn't falling, too. That, coupled with the oceans rising, will really make the planet smaller for inhabitation...

    I'd like to see more alarming reports...seems that is the only thing to motivate people to cut pollution. and the air we breathe IS being poisoned...what would u do if the air were cleaner...to quote the best HSD commercial by Toyota.

    Reducing pollution should be but one nice effect of the "hoopla" over Global climate change...less (carbon) is more (clean air) in this case.
     
  4. Chuck.

    Chuck. Former Honda Enzyte Driver

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("Wikipedia on Superman I")</div>
    Lex Luthor: Heck, I'll just let Greenland and Antartica melt - Superman can't stop that! :blink:
     
  5. TimBikes

    TimBikes New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(finman @ May 2 2007, 11:01 AM) [snapback]434096[/snapback]</div>
    OK - I'm sure this will raise hackles - CO2 is not a "pollutant". Its presence in the atmosphere is central to life as we know it on this planet. Even at the likely CO2 levels by mid-century there is no evidence of which I am aware that CO2 will become an "air quality" issue. If anything, elevated CO2 levels are likely to increase the productivity of plant life.

    I'm not saying there is no downside to rising CO2 levels, but the air quality argument is as vacuous as the 7 meter sea level rise argument. <_<
     
  6. Darwood

    Darwood Senior Member

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    I don't really think of CO2 as a pollutant either, but I'm not about to accuse people of overhype. Whatever message it takes to get the public conscience to tip towards conservation and alternatives is fine by me.

    Global warming will kill all baby seals and cause spontaneous human abortions all over the world!
    Our entire transportation sector and hence economy is in the hands of terrorist oil exporters!
    We have 10 years of oil left and 20 years worth of work to replace just half our oil usage!

    Pick your reason, go with it, and let others have their own reason.
    But for GODS SAKE, when are we (as a country, not you Darrell, the uber- enviro-stud!) gonna actually take the first step instead of bicker about the reasons we should?
     
  7. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TimBikes @ May 2 2007, 12:40 PM) [snapback]434173[/snapback]</div>
    Actually some of that could be considered false.

    High CO2 levels will increase carbonic acid formation. That is not good for plantlife or soils. Acidification of fresh and saltwater systems is equally bad since the vast majority of our oxygen is produced in the ocean this could lead to problems of which I'm sure you're aware of after reading the paper "Anthropogenic ocean acidification".

    After learning about bifurcation points or even exponential functions and forcings I would agrue that continuing to add ANYTHING to our natural systems in large abundance will have impacts. If those impacts cause abrupt changes in climate or atmospheric chemistry then we would be in a bit of trouble unless we figure out how to multiply as fast as bacteria and trade our genes laterally. Since PH is such and important part of biology I would be very wary about making changes to something that influences every aspect of our life.

    I do laugh that you basically used the same quote that was created by the oil industry and aired in a commercial to belittle AWG claims.. lol
     
  8. burritos

    burritos Senior Member

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    Who owns the land in the arctic circle and in antartica again?
     
  9. TimBikes

    TimBikes New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(F8L @ May 2 2007, 03:53 PM) [snapback]434315[/snapback]</div>
    Purely coincidence on the quote F8L. <_<

    In any case, you are correct about the acidification. But I was responding specifically to the "air we breathe IS being poisoned".

    I will also agree with the sentiment expressed by Darwood regarding bickering about the reasons. However, my feeling is it is better to make a sound argument on the basis of facts than rely on hyperbole. Which brings me back to my original response to this posting regarding the 7 m sea level rise. In my opinion, we should discuss realistic scenarios so that we can then have a discussion of realistic responses. Case in point - we can solve for a 7 m sea level rise by doing absolutely nothing - 'cause it ain't gonna happen.

    In addition, in my view the overselling of global warming takes away from other very serious environmental issues such as habitat loss, loss of species diversity and in the case of air we breathe, the issues of fine particulate matter which from a human health perspective are much more serious than an increment of CO2.

    But, I will grant you that my view may be a minority view here...
     
  10. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TimBikes @ May 2 2007, 05:13 PM) [snapback]434361[/snapback]</div>
    It just sounded spot on like the commercial. So much so I could hear the sound of the persons voice. lol

    If CO2 concentrations become higher then O2 levels would drop no? I've not studied that much but it was just a random thought. By breathing in higher levels of CO2 could this effect our health or would the concentrations required to do so be higher than is realistic?

    I completely understand what you are saying and I partially agree but if climate change happens quickly then preserving biodiversity is all for naught because so much will die out when the climate changes so fast. So the real plan should be to work on the climate AND the other issues you metioned. There is bsolutely no reason why we cnnot do that. We spend more time and money on BS entertainment like sports and television than is healthy for us and that leaves us with very little in the way of excuses. There is no either/or debate here. We can do it all.