Michigan-engineered Avalon debuts in January's N American International Auto Show

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by pilotgrrl, Dec 9, 2017.

  1. pilotgrrl

    pilotgrrl Senior Member

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    The Gen 5 Avalon shares the same platform with the new Camry. "The core powertrain on this generation was not done here, but we do the tuning and all the assembled components," Stephens said. Bob Carter, executive vice president for Toyota Motor North America, said the Lexus luxury brand will introduce at the Detroit auto show the LF 1 Limitless, a concept design of a future "flagship crossover utility vehicle."

    https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/2017/12/08/toyota-michigan-avalon-naias/934339001/


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  2. RCO

    RCO Senior Member

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    Thanks, that's great, but we don't have the Avalon in UK.
     
  3. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

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    AFAIK you don't have the Lexus ES that's related to it, either?

    I'm trying to think of what compares to the Avalon/ES in that market, and I'm not sure such a thing exists. Basically, think if your normal large family car were stretched in length a lot, and made nicer, but it's still ultimately that large family car (or what we call midsize) class.

    It's bigger than a Skoda Superb, if that helps.

    The market for the Avalon has traditionally been the very elderly, who would cross-shop American normal/premium but not luxury full-size sedans like the Ford Crown Victoria/Mercury Grand Marquis in the past (or more recently, Ford Taurus), or the Chevrolet Impala/Buick LaCrosse.

    The market for the Lexus ES has traditionally been... entry-level Lexus in the US before the IS came out (when the ES was based on the Camry directly, rather than being based on the Avalon), then entry-level Lexus for people that didn't care about driving dynamics and wanted something bigger than an IS. (And now the NX is another entry-level option, which is more appealing to the mass market than the ES.) Basically, the stereotypical ES buyers are better-off elderly people that would've cross-shopped a premium/luxury American full-size sedan - so Mercury Grand Marquis/Lincoln Town Car (or now, Lincoln Continental maybe - the MKZ is smaller), or Buick LaCrosse/Cadillac XTS.
     
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  4. RCO

    RCO Senior Member

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    There are few American cars on your list ( like none) that feature in UK. Even the solid Camry was added I've here some years back, apparently didn't sell as expected!
     
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  5. pilotgrrl

    pilotgrrl Senior Member

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    I think that, since gas costs so much less here than in many other countries, we Americans have a lot more choice when it comes to gas hogging vehicles.

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  6. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

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    Yeah, the problem I suspect is simply that American-sized cars don't work there, unless they're high-end luxury, which the Avalon/ES aren't - the Avalon's between the size of the Lexus GS and LS, for another comparison.

    Note that the Camry line split in model year 1992, with the US market getting a bigger car than the Japanese market (commonly referred to as the "wide-body" Camry). Mind you, the wide-body cars were also sold in Japan, and the last narrow-body Camry/Vista model was discontinued in 2003 for Japan. But, the second-gen Lexus ES was launched on the wide-body platform at the same time, and the original Avalon was a stretched version of that first wide-body Camry. Later Avalons continued the trend, and then the 6th-gen (model year 2013-present) Lexus ES was based on the 4th-gen (model year 2013-present) Avalon, instead of the Camry.
     
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  7. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    I view the Avalon as a slightly larger, higher trim level version of the Camry. I believe @bisco could comment further.
     
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  8. pilotgrrl

    pilotgrrl Senior Member

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    There have been Avalon hybrids. However, there was no mention made whether the new gen will have a hybrid version available.

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  9. bhtooefr

    bhtooefr Senior Member

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    The outgoing Avalon, FWIW, has two powertrains available - the previous Camry's hybrid system (for Europeans, you get this in the RAV4 Hybrid and the Lexus NX 300h, at least in FWD versions), and the previous Camry's V6/6-speed automatic powertrain (for Europeans, you get this (making slightly more power IIRC) in the previous-gen Lexus RX 350).

    My guess is that the new one will have the new Camry's hybrid system (Europeans don't get this yet, but it's an all-new engine and a Gen 4-based transaxle), as well as the new Camry's V6/8-speed automatic powertrain (the current RX 350 basically has this, but tuned for more low-end torque and less power IIRC).
     
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  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i looked at the hyava, when we purchased our current hycam. nice looking car, but too big for our taste.
    great for cruising, but other than our annual trip to florida (would love to have it then) the hycam is a much better local vehicle for tight streets and parking. phev would be even better.
     
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  11. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    Sorry, my mistake. I believe there is at least one Prius user here who also has a Hybrid Avalon.
     
  12. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    yes, there is a hyava thread somewhere, and they are discussing the 2018.
     
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  13. Prodigyplace

    Prodigyplace Senior Member

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    Let me try again. I believe @krmcg has a 2016 Prius (the first Gen 4 here) and a Hybrid Avalon.
     
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  14. krmcg

    krmcg Lowered Blizzard Pearl Beauty

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    Yes. I have a 2014 Avalon Limited Hybrid and a 2016 Prius four. I have a lifetime calculated MPG of 36.7 on the Avalon. The Avalon is bigger than the Camry - and a notch higher in comfort.
    I am sure that the new Avalon will have a hybrid option - why would Toyota abandon that line?
     
    #14 krmcg, Dec 11, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2017
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  15. Tideland Prius

    Tideland Prius Moderator of the North
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    @Munpot42 has one too.

    The current Avalon is much more appealing. The previous ones didn't have much more features than a Camry XLE V6 so you're just paying for size (or for the 1st gen, optional 6-passenger seating).

    Edit: I'll add that the next gen Avalon may take the fastback look a bit further (think 2018 Stinger or 2018 Accord). Also, it seems like Toyota is sticking with the hockey-stick front end design like the Prius or refreshed Corolla.
     
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