Minivan dream: Peugeot 5008

With fuel the price of ours here in Europe we have no choice! You either get good fuel economy or good performance but not both

The 5008 does look an interesting car and Peugeots are usually very stylish cars but if you search the internet you will find that they don't have the best reliability.

 

I assume that you do not carry 5 persons all the time in your Prius? It is the same for Minivans. Most of the time it is like one or two persons and some groceries.
As GrumpyCabbie stated, milage is a reason. And the average European does not drag race.
I remember driving a VW Passat with a 1.5l diesel engine and 70 hp. It was no rocket at the stop light, but close to 125 mph (200km/h) were no problem (on the German Autobahn).

Concerning hybrids (and power): A short time ago I testdrove a Twike (twike.com). Nice threewheeled twoseater - electric and human hybrid (pedals like a recumbent). The 3kW (about 4 hp) engine is enough to keep up with urban traffic and reaches about 60 mph (close to 100 km/h). Calculated milage would be in the 500 mpg range (0,5 l/100km). Using the latest LION Batteries the range is up to 120 miles (200km). The price is high - more than a loaded Prius

Martin

 

Can I ask a question here? Is the panoramic roof an unusual thing in the states? Peugeot have done them for years now, starting with their 407Station Wagon in about 2004. Peugeot 407 SW Estate (04 on) Gallery - Parker's 407SW 2.7TDi V6 031208 (50).JPG

Have driven one of those and the roof idea is great. The interior roof can be moved back to reveal a gap about the same size as a traditional sun roof (what's the difference between a sunroof and a moon roof?), or slide it all the way back to have a panoramic glass roof. It's heavily darkened so you don't get baked by the sun but it is just soo weird to have the sky above you in a station wagon.

 

The original Dodge/Chrysler Caravan minivan was speced with a 4cyl engine that produced a whopping 100hp. My parents had one and we'd load it up to the brim for road trips.

Sure, it was a bit slow up big mountain grades (pretty much had to floor it to maintain 55mph), but other than that, it had enough power. The biggest issue with the power delivery was the craptastic 4-spd auto with wide gear spacing which would constantly hunt going up those grades.

Later got a newer one with the 150hp V6 and thought that had huge amounts of power. No issues at all.

So 120hp with a decent transmission should be OK, especially in Europe. If Americans weren't so power hungry (or if gas was more expensive) the smaller engines would be more popular here as well.

 

120hp doesn't sound like much but this is a diesel and not a gasoline engine. Torque is mre important than hp in my mind. With more power you can accelerate to 60 quicker but with more torque you'll be able to hold that speed easier and thus use less fuel.

Don't look at the numbers just drive it. Heck my diesel jetta was rated at 90hp when it was stock and whenever I told people that thy didn't believe it.

It's all about torque and frankly I dint know why Americans are so obsessed with hp.

Even more importantly is the torque curve. If you look at a gas engines curve it's mostly linear and doest produce very much torque down low. But if you look at a diesels torque curve you will see the peak torque very early in the rpm range. The new dd16 Detroit diesel semi engine makes 2050lb-ft at 1000 rpm. It's no sen close to the same as a diesel minivan but the same concept applies, torquq down that low is useble torque, meaning you don't have to rap out the engine to get it to go.

 

Taking about small engines check out the Skoda Superb (based on an Audi A6) which comes with a 1400cc petrol engine! It's turbo charged and has 125bhp, 0-60 in 10.5 seconds (same as the Prius) and gets 42 mpg (UK).

New Skoda Superb Saloon Car Review - Driving & Performance - Parker's

Was going to get one instead of the Prius but wanted an automatic box.

 

It's not about torque, it's about power under the curve - I'll take a nice flat torque curve over one that peaks significantly at low or high RPMs any day. That way you have decent hp at low RPMs and can cruise efficiently, but still have the ability to rev the engine when you need the power.

Have a look at the BMW 3.0l twin-turbo 6cyl. Makes 300ft/lbs of torque at 1500rpm, is flat up to 4000rpm then tapers down slightly towards redline making well over 250hp from 3500rpm to redline at 7000rpm. Now that is a great engine.

The only reason you'd use less fuel is because you are able to turn the engine slower (because the engine makes more power/hp at lower RPMs) thus reducing frictional losses. That's how a Vette is able to get 30mpg on the highway - in 6th gear at 65mph, the engine is barely over idle.

Bad example, though I agree that it's the torque curve that matters - the torque curve in your typical semi engine falls flat on it's face much over 2000 rpm. So now you have to row the crap out of the gears to keep the engine in the sweet spot.

 

It's merely the example that came to mind when I thought of it. It's redline is 1650rpm. Yes semis need to be shifted a lot. We have three with 10 speeds and one with an 18spd but it's the best way to keel them in their powerband. Cars have done the same over the years adding more gears to keep vehicles in the powerband.