Model Letter to Toyota Executives re Defective Fuel Gauge

Fletch, I think you're making an admirable effort to change what you feel is wrong with the car, but I think the problems with the tank and gauge are twofold - there is the issue of not knowing how much is in the tank and then the issue of the non-linear gauge and "too-early" add fuel signal.

I do not think running out of fuel is "very common." I would guess that if you polled the users on this board you'll find less than 10 who ran out of fuel accidentally in their Prius.

If you don't mind, I do not wish the tank to start flashing when I only have a gallon left. I would prefer that it flash at 2.5 gallons of usable fuel so that I may take that time to decide where is best for me to refuel.

What I would hope to have happen is to have a patch for the fuel gauge that is more linear.

I don't know if it's possible with the bladder or not, but I'd like to know how much fuel is in the tank at any given moment (my husband's Saab has a little dash computer that tells us how much fuel is in the tank and then computes how far we can go). My difficulty at this moment with the gauge is the fact that I don't know how much fuel is in the car for sure. I only know at this moment that there are 6.001 gallons because I just refueled - I cannot be certain how much was in there when I filled, so I am resigned to go as far as whatever I put in there and not much further without anxiety.

 

Hi Fletch: I think this letter is a bit over the top. If the gas gauge showed more gas than was available, I'd agree completely that it was a safety issue. As it is, it is an annoyance, but not a safety issue. If you put gas in the tank when it shows the last bar, you'll be fine; so what if the mileage varys between tankfuls as long as you don't run the car out of gas.
I agree with those who say that Toyota is erring on the side of caution. The 2005 model may have a tweak in the software to lessen the amount of gas held in "involuntary reserve", but I doubt they will, or could, make it read like a needle type analog gauge.
Bob

 

Agree with the other responses.

If someone runs out of gas and gets assaulted and sues Toyota, their answer is, "Well, why didn't you refill it when the big flashing exclamation point warned you to?!?" Nobody's required to run 100 miles past that point!

The only real issue is that because of the early flashing (if indeed it is early), the effective size of the gas tank is not the advertised size of the gas tank. If you wait until the last bar is blinking and then fill up only 7.5 gallons into a tank that supposedly holds 11.9 gallons, that's a potential lawsuit for fraud or false advertising. That's WAY off. I'm not going 500 miles on a 7.5 gallon fill-up. I've never yet hit 400 miles without a blinking warning.

For what it's worth, today was my first "warm weather" fill-up (also at a new gas station), and I got 8.5 gallons in for the first time -- no tricks, just filled it until the auto-shutoff.

 

Safety cannot be used as a basis for this.

Toyota did everything in their power to prevent you from ever running out of gas, by triggering several warnings long before the even remotely reached empty.

The only danger would come from the owner intentionally ignoring the warnings... which would be immediately dismissed as negligence.

Nothing is broken. There is no defect because the gauge is working as it was designed. Your letter will probably just fall into a pile somewhere.

Submitting a change request would have been a more effective approach... along with an explanation why you feel it is safe to allow the warning to be delayed until only 1 gallon remains.

 

Cramming the tank full of gas may have straightened my gauge out, or maybe yesterday was a fluke.

I added back 10.6 gallons after driving 522 miles (48.9MPG average, calculated and Energy Monitor) and had one unblinking bar and no "Add Fuel" warning when I drove into the station.

I've seen stories where people drove 100+ miles with the gauge blinking, but I wasn't going to go very far on the gas I should have had left...

 

This is very good example why Toyota gets highest customer satisfaction grades.

It's more about psychological profile of typical Toyota buyer than anyhing else.

Remember, less demanding you are, worse service you'll get.
There is nothing wrong in complaining (and the draft letter is not aggressive at all, in my humble view), unless you consider Prius a *Holy Cow*.

 

Disagree. There IS a problem with the tank, but that letter makes faulty arguments. It effectively threatens a lawsuit based on the problem, but for a poor reason. "I ignored the 'refuel now' warning light and ran out of gas, and it's Toyota's fault" is somewhere below "I ate four Big Macs a day for three years and gained weight, and it's McDonald's fault" on the lawsuit scale.

 

Very astute observation Evan.

 

With allegations of "defect" and "life-threatening", Toyota will never respond to the letter. OTOH, I could see them having their legal staff contact the writer and others here to discuss a libel settlement for posting such provocative, undocumented, unverified, absurd claims in a public forum.

If I were the Admin, I'd consider deleting the thread just to eliminate any potential liability for PriusChat. Alternatively, for the First Amendment crowd, it might be safe in a forum with a disclaimer. I'm sure anyone (or their attorney) could run a clock arguing on their behalf. AFAIK, that hasn't happened on other Toyota boards copying Toyota trademarks that at first glance could confuse a passerby of Toyota's consent and approval of posts here.

Hey, now I better throw in a disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer and don't intend this as legal advice. It falls into the same category of my other opinions: As always, my 2¢.

 

Not just that, but Admin has to close this forum for any infidels who question beauty and perfection of the Prius.
I wonder if some king of anti-trolling test should be introduced?
On-line polygraph test perharps? :lol:

I agree, the draft is not perfect, but you guys (Evan, Frank and amped) behaving like a cult, which is not positively serving the purpose of this forum, I beleive.
The draft is a basis for discussion, not the reason for paranoid behavior.

 

Hi boa8. I just got back from the goat sacrifice with the other guys and read your post. Here's my idea of paranoia from that letter:

"This is not just a miserable nuisance; this is a life-threatening defect. I am concerned that Toyota will soon be subject to a bitter liability suit, when a Prius owner runs out of gas, and is then struck by a car while hiking to a gas station; or a woman is assaulted in a dangerous neighborhood because her Prius ran out of gas." Riiiight.

I'm new here and don't know the personalities yet, so can't speak for any other members. I do know that this is the Main Forum where facts are preferred over hysteria. You obviously haven't read my very few other posts that show anything but blind admiration for Prius. Ignorance is bliss...does that explain your smiley?

 

Gotta jump in here. When you call Evan a member of a "Prius Cult" you lose any credibility you might have had.
Dr. Fusco has always posted level-headed responses. Go back up to the top of this thread and look at Evan's first entry. He gives credit where credit is due, (more credit than I would have given,) and engages in respectful disagreement.
There are a few people here that take offense to any negative post about the Prius, but Evan is not one of those people. He puts in a lot of time as a Moderator of this board, and he deserves our thanks.
I could go on, but I worked all night and I need my sleep.

 

Wow, you guys had a goat sacrifice and didn't invite me? Rats....

And now I have to figure out what to do with this goat....

 

Can't help you there -- when I hire a goat, I don't ask about its political, religious or sexual background.

I don't need to -- I just give it internet access, and wait for it to post that information on the "What kind of person would buy a Prius, anyway?" thread.

 

My humble advice to you guys:

1. Please, do not twist someone's words, even if you have no time to read my (also Fletch's et al.) postings carefully.

2. Don't label people even if you're *Doctors*

3. Don't take things personally, even if there's some basis for that. Be above it. Demonstrate your maturuty, breadth of your horison, your mental health etc. etc. (Be up to your F A N T A S T I C C A R level).

4. Take (regularily) other than Toyota brand cars for a test drive. Test your faith (bonus - you could be surprised).

5. Use spellchecker (I know: my English is fare from purfect (learned in action only), don't bother to bash on that).

Sincerely Yours,

Boa8

P.S. Thanks to everybody at this forum, it's a lot of fun to be here. Seriously. 8)

 

I missed that forum, thanks a lot bookrats, it's a real treasure!

What a spirit (i mean fragrance) concentration!

BTW, happy birthday to you.