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Muslim foot baths!

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by Devil's Advocate, Jul 30, 2007.

  1. Devil's Advocate

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  2. burritos

    burritos Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Devil's Advocate @ Jul 30 2007, 07:49 PM) [snapback]487725[/snapback]</div>
    No. Tax dollars should not pay for this. Stop this, now! Then stop all tax deductions for donations to churches and stop the tax free status for ALL religious organizations.

    If a church or mosque catches on fire, aren't they getting a freebie from the taxpayers to have the firemen put out the fire?
     
  3. TonyPSchaefer

    TonyPSchaefer Your Friendly Moderator
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    I have to wonder if they would be comfortable washing their feet while a woman with exposed breasts is nursing her baby. [hint hint] Furthermore, I wonder if there's a student or staff member who breast feeds five times a day. [hint hint] So if the bathroom is being used by a woman with exposed breasts and they can't use it, then it's not being used for religious activities. [hint hint]

    Ladies???
     
  4. priussoris

    priussoris New Member

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    I see where your mind is at Tony :D
     
  5. Godiva

    Godiva AmeriKan Citizen

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    Hmph.

    We have a few muslim students at our junior high school. One has come into the library a few times to use our paperback room for some quiet prayer. Never has he asked to use the bathroom to wash his feet.

    Afana is pre-med? Heaven forbid he should be in the middle of a lengthy surgery and have to leave the operating room to pray.

    However, I will side with the University on this. Clearly the wear and tear on the bathroom fixtures testify to the years in which people have been using the sinks to wash their feeet. The facilities are suffering the abuse and you cannot simply make a rule that people cannot wash their feet in the sinks. First, it's unenforceable unless you station guards in all of the bathrooms to stop people from doing it. And second, it is a safety hazard. Balancing on one wet foot on a tile floor while you wash the other isn't safe. Students funds are being used for a student/visitor accommodation. Since they are student funds it probably either underwent a vote or a student representative council voted to allocate the funds. Students have allocated funds for stuff that is a lot more useless than footbaths.

    As for the comparison with a baptismal font, that's simply stupid. You don't baptize yourself five times a day.
     
  6. Wildkow

    Wildkow New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(burritos @ Jul 30 2007, 05:57 PM) [snapback]487733[/snapback]</div>
    Oh Man are you going to burn in Hell a long time for that remark! :( Don't say I didn't warn ya! :p

    Wildkow
     
  7. eagle33199

    eagle33199 Platinum Member

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    I agree with Godiva - This isn't a religious issue so much as it is a safety and grounds issue. The additional wear and tear on the infrastructure means additional costs in repairing/replacing for the university. The safety concerns are even more important - someone slips and gets hurt, sues the school for not providing adequate wash facilities, it could cost a lot.

    I don't see anywhere in the article that these foot fountains will be dedicated solely for use by the Muslims. They are the immediate demand, but it won't stop someone who was out on the quad playing Frisbee barefoot from washing their feet in them. The difference between this and a baptismal font are many, but the most important thing, in my mind, is that this is only a sink on the floor - no one's going to get mad if non-believers use it.
     
  8. scargi01

    scargi01 Active Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Jul 31 2007, 07:47 AM) [snapback]487937[/snapback]</div>
    I disagree - it is being done only for religious reasons. If Muslims weren't using the sinks to wash their feet for their religious practice this wouldn't be needed. While state funding is not being used to pay for them, student fees are being used. Would you be ok with using student fees to fund other religious practices? How about providing Muslims with copies of the Quran, or Christians the bible? How about using the student fees to build a confessional for Catholics? Somehow I think if the religion being practiced was Judaism or Christianity the University would have a different opinion on whether it was a reasonable accommodation.
     
  9. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Jul 31 2007, 08:47 AM) [snapback]487937[/snapback]</div>
    The lengths we go to to are amazing. If there was a need for non-Muslims to wash their feet would it not already be known? And why do accept this obvious religious tradition being supported on public property with public money?

    You would support wash basins and water pitchers for Jews who have to wash their hands before they eat each meal being present in the schools cafeterias?
     
  10. Proco

    Proco Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Jul 31 2007, 09:26 AM) [snapback]487947[/snapback]</div>
    Doesn't a bathroom sink already fill the hand-washing requirement? Why would something special be required?

    Regardless of what you think of Muslims, their religion or this particular issue, washing your feet in a bathroom sink is a safety hazard. What I don't understand is why the University decided to pay for it when the Islamic community had planned to raise the money for it.
     
  11. scargi01

    scargi01 Active Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Proco @ Jul 31 2007, 08:45 AM) [snapback]487959[/snapback]</div>
    They are probably afraid of being sued if they don't pay for it and someone falls and breaks their neck. It is cheaper to pay for the wash basins than to pay for lawyers to defend a lawsuit.
     
  12. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Proco @ Jul 31 2007, 09:45 AM) [snapback]487959[/snapback]</div>
    The Jewish ceremony of washing your hands before eating should not be done by a faucet or machine - but by human agency like a water pitcher. So, i would hope that when the Hillel organization requests that a ceremonial wash basin and water pitcher be made available near the dining halls you will support that too.

    In any event, you are using public property and money to aid in the practice of a religion - is this ok with you? I thought that that would violate the separation of church and state - how does it not in your opinion?

    And I think the same of Muslims as I do of Jews or Catholics or any other religious group. I would appreciate it if you would stop putting words or thoughts in my mouth - you insult me by your implying that I do not like the Muslim religion.
     
  13. Proco

    Proco Senior Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Jul 31 2007, 10:06 AM) [snapback]487971[/snapback]</div>
    I was unaware that your handwashing had to be done in a certain way. That's why I asked the question. Please forgive me if it was insensitive.

    To answer to your question about this particular issue, I'm not a big fan of the gov't involving itself in religious matters of any kind. Which is why I think this would have been less of an issue if the university had accepted the offer of the Islamic community to pay for it. Then no public money would be going to it.

    As for my "putting words in your mouth", I never said you thought one way or another. I said "regardless of how you feel" ... meaning I really don't care how you feel. If you think I was suggesting otherwise, you're mistaken. However, I will say I should have said "regardless of how anyone feels" (which is what I was going for). And by anyone I mean you, me and everyone else. I apologize for being unclear.
     
  14. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Proco @ Jul 31 2007, 10:50 AM) [snapback]488001[/snapback]</div>
    You were not insensitive - relax bro :)

    You still need to address the issue of allowing public property to be used for religious purposes - even if that religion (read that any religion) pays for it.
     
  15. qbee42

    qbee42 My other car is a boat

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Proco @ Jul 31 2007, 10:50 AM) [snapback]488001[/snapback]</div>
    I need a place for sacrificing black chickens by the light of the full moon (it's a Linux thing); what's the University going to do about it?

    Tom
     
  16. hycamguy07

    hycamguy07 New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Devil's Advocate @ Jul 30 2007, 08:49 PM) [snapback]487725[/snapback]</div>
    I couldnt open the link, are these like SanFrancisco Bath houses? :huh: :lol:
     
  17. dbermanmd

    dbermanmd New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Jul 31 2007, 08:47 AM) [snapback]487937[/snapback]</div>
    so every public bathroom and every public school should have a foot bath for Muslims?

    I wonder, if a Muslim saw a non-Muslim washing their feet in that particular foot bath would they say anything or object, or not use it again?
     
  18. formerVWdriver

    formerVWdriver New Member

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    What if somebody uses the floor-sink for something similar to how I use my laundry sink? To wash the dog in, for example. Or maybe that's a bad example, since their is no accommodation for dog hygiene in university restrooms.

    What if, instead, I use the floor-sink to wash off unpleasant things I have stepped in (such as from the aforementioned dog). I am a student. I have a right to wash my shoes. It's just a sink, right? Just a public convenience paid for by student funds for the use of all students. I'll rinse the dog poop down the drain, but I'll not be scrubbing the sink. Does that work?
     
  19. IsrAmeriPrius

    IsrAmeriPrius Progressive Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Proco @ Jul 31 2007, 07:50 AM) [snapback]488001[/snapback]</div>
    You should not confuse lack of knowledge with insensitivity. If you want to learn more on the subject, Wikipedia® has a good article:

    Ritual washing in Judaism
     
  20. Devil's Advocate

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    Well some have tried to justify this as a "safety" issue or to save wear and tear on bathroom fixtures. Nice try, but if some other religeon was damaging school property in the practice of its faith they would be charged with vandalism, not give custom made fixtures at the schools expense. Second, Why do you need to put your foot IN the sink? If you know your muslim (which I think you would) and that you have to wash your feet, why not carry a little potable basin that you can fill with water and then dump down the drain? Why do my tax dollars need to accomadate your religeous practices?

    And why in the hell is the ACLU behind this?!?!?!?!