Muslim Wife Beating

Aren't we the culture that fights hard to keep child beating OK? Every time some busybody suggests corporal punishment of children might be harmful, boy, do we get on our high horses and loudly proclaim our "right" to beat our children as the only bible sanctioned method of keeping the little bastards in line.

And we practically salivate over the death penalty, even of the mentally disabled and the juvenile.

So on balance I think our cultural mores aren't all that less vicious or stupid than the cultural mores that sanction wife beating, just different.

Mark Baird
Alameda CA

 

These continuous anti-Islamic rants from a few Prius Chatters want to make me puke.

And I'm not even Islamic - I'm Catholic. And I don't even have any Mulsim friends.

It wasn't all that long ago that domestic violence was "part of the culture" here too. And there are many other non-Islamic cultures that have a ways to go too.

 

Law of the land not the law of ANY church in a court. Catholic priests think it's OK to have sex with choir boys (as an example, sorry about the stereotype) but the law says it isn't so they go to jail for it. Wife beating is not OK and should not be tolerated. Divorce is a sin in the Islamic faith and the catholic faith but the law allows it.

I hope she can get a protection order against her husband.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(n8kwx @ Sep 21 2007, 02:15 AM) [snapback]515642[/snapback]</div>

First, it is not an anti-Islamic rant - it is the statement of a fact and truthful story. It highlights a very important issue especially in europe where the population of Muslims is large - that is the competition between two very different sets of laws and customs. Which one should prevail? Is that a tough question for you to answer? So sit down after you finish puking and try answering the question. Whether or not you have Muslim friends is not important.... there are issues in the US like installing foot baths in public places to accommodate Muslim religious practices that have entered the public forum here --- do we allow that or is there a separation of Church/Mosque and State???? In essence, europe is facing now what we might fact later. Your thoughtful opinion might be more useful.

Your last sentence might in fact lead you to an answer. Your use of the past tense with domestic violence here highlights your observation that we have progressed in our culture and how we treat and how we expect others to treat their spouses. Our continued progression in our cultural expectations of interpersonal behavior patterns focuses on the point of the post here -- In Islam it is STILL ACCEPTABLE to beat your wife - amongst other allowed behaviors we would probably find horrifying like stoning people to death.

Although we still allow capital punishment it is done in a painless fashion and very infrequently and now carries a very high burden of overwhelming evidence and a very long and drawn out appeal process - the death penalty in Muslim countries has not changed in thousands of years.

If you want to segway to other cultures and their expectations of interpersonal behavior fine - if you want to steer outside the question posted fine - perhaps you should provide evidence to support your statement.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(TonyPSchaefer @ Sep 21 2007, 09:12 AM) [snapback]515714[/snapback]</div>

I actually think this is quite simple - the rule of law of the country supersedes the law of any one religion. Would it be ok for this woman to be killed by her husband as an honor killing for doing something that would be considered embarrassing to him. Is female circumcision ok here in the US of A if it is allowed by someones religion who is a citizen here? If a religion allows for stoning to death - is that ok here too? And how do you define religion - there are numerous "religions" - which ones would you allow to rule their disciples?

so in the end, the laws of the country like our Constitution and Bill of Rights should supersede any religious laws.

 

"so in the end, the laws of the country like our Constitution and Bill of Rights should supersede any religious laws."

But my president told me it's just a god da** piece of paper!

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Darwood @ Sep 21 2007, 09:28 AM) [snapback]515722[/snapback]</div>

Do you think religious laws should supersede secular ones. Our Bill of Rights should be superseded by Sharia laws?

 

Berman, get a grip. Seriously. You're trying to make an issue where none exists.

When it comes to cases like this, it's one thing for us, as a people, to say that their legal system may be flawed for permitting this. It's another thing to even suggest that we should do anything to intervene.

You know, as well as anyone, that local laws here in the US supersede religious laws, Sharia laws, and everything else - while you're in the US. Why even pose the question?

If you ask me, i think you're posing the question because you want someone to say "Yes, the bill of rights supersedes Sharia law", so you can come back with another question along the lines of "So you agree that the war in Iraq is right then" or some other piece of BS

 

Yes, I'm sure domestic violence must be due to the Koran...

<blockquote>Nearly one-third of American women (31 percent) report being physically or sexually abused by a husband or boyfriend at some point in their lives, according to a 1998 Commonwealth Fund survey.4

Nearly 25 percent of American women report being raped and/or physically assaulted by a current or former spouse, cohabiting partner, or date at some time in their lifetime, according to the National Violence Against Women Survey, conducted from November 1995 to May 1996.5

Thirty percent of Americans say they know a woman who has been physically abused by her husband or boyfriend in the past year.6

In the year 2001, more than half a million American women (588,490 women) were victims of nonfatal violence committed by an intimate partner.7</blockquote>

...err...or maybe not.

4. The Commonwealth Fund, Health Concerns Across a Woman’s Lifespan: 1998 Survey of Women’s Health, May 1999
5. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and The National Institute of Justice, Extent, Nature, and Consequences of Intimate Partner Violence, July 2000.
6. Lieberman Research Inc., Tracking Survey conducted for The Advertising Council and the Family Violence Prevention Fund, July – October 1996
7. Bureau of Justice Statistics Crime Data Brief, Intimate Partner Violence, 1993-2001, February 2003

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Sep 21 2007, 03:01 PM) [snapback]515704[/snapback]</div>

What makes you say that ?
Are you aware that there is also a Muslim community un USA ? It might be not as small as you would think...

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Tchou @ Sep 21 2007, 10:05 AM) [snapback]515739[/snapback]</div>

I am aware of the Muslim community here in the US - my partner is MUSLIM - hows that for a fact of life.
My anesthesiologist is a Muslim - another fact of life.
So what?


Its [the Muslim community] size is of little concern to me - as long as they follow US laws.

 

Hilarious!!!
It's called humor Dr. B.
I was quoting you, and added a Bush quote for humorous contrast.

No one's saying Sharia law supercedes the constitution.

 

any marriage that poses a life-threatening danger to one party or the other should qualify for expedited divorce, IMO.

that's holding someone to a different standard because of their cultural background. i thought we weren't big fans of that here (yes, i know, the case is happening in germany, i'm just making a point to some of the americans here). i thought all were created equal in the eye of the law. why punish someone with the possibility of death because she "should have expected it" anyway? because of her religion? is she allowed to change her mind after this bad decision to marry this guy? and in time to avoid being killed for it?

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Darwood @ Sep 21 2007, 10:17 AM) [snapback]515747[/snapback]</div>

Sorry
I got my serious game face on a little early - i should have waited till sundown.
My bad.
I know there are few if any that would want Sharia law or any religious law to supersede our Constitution.
Have a nice weekend.
David

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(dbermanmd @ Sep 21 2007, 09:09 AM) [snapback]515744[/snapback]</div>

And guess what... when they break the law here in the US, the same thing happens to them that happens to everyone else that breaks the law in the US. They aren't given special treatment because of their religion.

This issue is about a judge in GERMANY dealing with citizens of that country. Stop trying to turn this into an America versus Muslim issue.

 

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(eagle33199 @ Sep 21 2007, 11:36 AM) [snapback]515797[/snapback]</div>

You never quit. You must CREATE conflict where NONE exists. STOP IT. You make others look as foolish as yourself.

I AM NOT TRYING TO TURN THIS INTO AN AMERICAN VS. MUSLIM ISSUE. MY POINT IS THAT WE MAY ALSO BE FACED WITH THE SAME ISSUES HERE AS THEY ARE IN GERMANY - IS THAT POSSIBLE? I CITE THE ISSUE OF INSTALLING FOOT WASHING BASINS IN AN AIRPORT AND OR UNIVERSITY AS A HINT OF THINGS TO COME - IN YOUR OPINION DOES THAT START TO CROSS THE SEPARATION OF CHURCH/MOSQUE AND STATE -- COULD ONE CONSTRUE THAT AT THE LEAST IT RAISES IT AS AN ISSUE?

SIT DOWN. AND STOP CREATING CONFLICTS WHERE THEY DO NOT EXIST. AND DO NOT ACCUSE ME OF DOING THINGS I AM OBVIOUSLY NOT DOING - AT LEAST TO AN IMPARTIAL PERSON.

YOU CERTAINLY LIKE CLASS CONFLICTS -