My 12V battery is 6 years old & working fine=Should I replace it before 3000 mile trip?

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Main Forum' started by ski.dive, Apr 11, 2019.

  1. kenoarto

    kenoarto Senior Member

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    Now you are trolling. You just suggested that batteries that are 6 years old have 2/3 of their life left. Only a handfull of batteries make it 7-9 years. Only a handfull of trolls consider breakdowns on the road to be trivial. SMH.

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  2. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    There is no free lunch.

    There is a trade off. As current flows from the battery to the caps to charge them, the battery voltage goes DOWN......so that the net current that the combined devices are able to supply should be about equal to the battery alone, IF you hadn't used part of it's energy to charge up the caps.
     
  3. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Recheck your math. That is up to 1/3 left in my climate zone. And well beyond zero in others. Different answers for different situations.

    Only FUD-spreading trolls insist that everyone must follow the same calendar replacement rule in order to avoid some potential scary situation.

    In nearly 100 vehicle-years of experience in my household, our batteries have always initially displayed their age weakness in parking lots. Never ever by sudden un-warned death on the road. By replacing them based on symptoms and performance, rather than a blanket blind age rule intended for harsher conditions than my own, I have avoided well over a dozen unnece$$ary battery replacements.

    So even if I experience your sort of on-road failure on a deeply rural road tomorrow night, needing an expensive tow to an overpriced battery outlet and a lodging bill while waiting for shops to open, I'll still be way ahead on the money side of the equation over the time period I've operated this household fleet.

    To repeat yet again, other drivers will have very different conditions and trade-off balance points. Very many people live in harsher climate zones and simply can't go as long as I do. Others simply can't or don't want to monitor the battery's performance as closely and will want to replace earlier, and I have earlier acknowledged that as reasonable. As I get older, less able-bodied, less mobile, and less resourceful, I too will be replacing batteries earlier.

    But I still insist that it is not prima facie unreasonable or excessively risky or expensive to knowingly run batteries longer in some not-uncommon situations. Only trolls demand otherwise from everyone.

    If this was October-January, I'd suggest that OP at least get the battery tested. But April-June? Meh. Just make sure he is aware of the risks and tradeoffs.
     
    #63 fuzzy1, Apr 16, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
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  4. mczouav

    mczouav Junior Member

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    Check the Nernst layer or diffusion limitations around an electrode and it s effect of electrode potential. In this case a broken battery electrode of i.e. Pb/ PbO2 which might only have a limited surface contact with the H2SO4/PbSO4 / HSO4- xxxx solution electrolyte can no longer deliver the high current, while it is not depleted and still has the electrode couple present, just in limited surface amount, can still deliver 2V /cell. And can in principle still charge a supercapacitor, it just takes time. In the best case of course. And can be a saver since the supercap can deliver the high amperage energy quickly, even connected to the weak battery.
    ( Same effect ish as with an depleted alkaline battery in a torch that turns on for a sec and dims quickly. With a different electrochemistry of course)

    Anyone tried a supercap on a prius yet? I am planning to add such a board of supercap on my prime when the 12 v battery when i have time... I read somewhere that the 12v batteries on priuses do not grow old. The thing is 6 supercaps costs 100$ ish but can last forever.

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  5. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    How much capacity? Farads? How much IR in these components?
     
  6. mczouav

    mczouav Junior Member

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    Like the maxwell 2.7v /350F supercaps. Those deliver a lot of A depending on the model. 6 in serie can deal with 12 v easily.

    Not cheap supercap with tiny metal leads.

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  7. kenoarto

    kenoarto Senior Member

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    Battery failure in a parking lot, in the middle of nowhere, hundreds of miles from home (OP stated trip will be 3000 miles) is NEVER trIvial. BTW: Your gas math equivilace Is a very VERY poor analogy.

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  8. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Then why did YOU bring it up in the first place? And the 'troll' word too?
    I guess I'll have to take your angst-filled word for that. The January Subaru incident I mentioned earlier happened in Steamboat Springs, only :rolleyes:1325 (non-direct) miles into a 2860 mile trip (not counting local movements at the many stops along the way).

    While not truly trivial, it also wasn't filled with your "gobs of angst", nor cost lots of time (no ski time was lost at all), nor much money. In fact, counting the amortized savings of getting more of the lifespan from that battery, I'm still saving, so far. And that is with a smaller battery care kit than Mendel carries. My jump box is smaller than his.

    After getting home from that trip, I did promptly replace a 12V auto battery -- in my Prius, not Subaru. The later can wait until this coming October, before its next exposure to sub-zero conditions.
     
    #68 fuzzy1, Apr 16, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
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  9. frodoz737

    frodoz737 Top Wrench

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    Acceptable risk management (as it applies) is a personal decision and usually based on one's personal experiences, skill, demands and income . 12 VDC Lead acid batteries (including AGM) generally have an acceptable health of +/- 5 years. How one defines acceptable defines one's actions.
     
    #69 frodoz737, Apr 16, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
  10. kenoarto

    kenoarto Senior Member

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    OK! OK! You are right and most car drivers are wrong! We should wait until our car parts fail before we replace them, even though we have tons of data that tells us when our parts are due for replacement, there is no reason to easily avoid predictable breakdowns.
     
  11. cyberpriusII

    cyberpriusII Prodigyplace says I'm Super Kris

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    fuzzy1 Senior Member:

    >>>>>I'm still saving, so far. And that is with a smaller battery care kit than Mendel carries. My jump box is smaller than his.>>>>>>

    A guy admitting something is smaller??? Did I read that right? Sorry Fuzzy1 just had to take that shot -- the ball was thrown directly over the plate.

    As for your discussion with Kenoarto, you both have good points. Since I tend to be "thrifty" (or is that cheap), I tend to agree a bit more with your points, but you both have some valid things -- in other words, leave me out of your argument. :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
    Kris (who likes you BOTH)!!
     
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  12. mczouav

    mczouav Junior Member

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    3.2 mOhm for the bcap350

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  13. TMR-JWAP

    TMR-JWAP Senior Member

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    Fuzzy1 recently said: With temperatures subsequently warming to -5F and above

    ................something is just plain wrong when warming to and -5F are used in the same sentence :eek::eek:

    And just to throw something in the mix....I agree with the "to each, his own" theory. My senior citizen mother lived about 40 minutes away from my house for about 15 years. I installed a new battery in her car every 3 years, regardless of its condition. As mentioned before, it's all about personal threshold. Now that she lives with us, I guess I'll save that $. :unsure:

    I'm still a firm believer that a simple electronic battery tester can make battery replacement a very predictable maintenance item. It can also save a lot of troubleshooting heartache. How many episodes do we hear about every week on the forums about 12v issues?
     
    #73 TMR-JWAP, Apr 16, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
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  14. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    The only way -5F is acceptable is if the temperature is 5 degrees Fahrenheit less than the day before(y).
     
  15. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Some members here preach, or just prefer for their own personal situation, 3 years. But I see plenty of batteries with 5 year warranties. Or should I put "warranty" in quotes, as it seems such promises are often so heavily restricted and deeply pro-rated as to be not worth the effort to make a warranty claim.

    But I also frequently see automotive batteries with 72 and 84 month 'warranties' (limited, not full). How many years are those? ;) Are batteries supposed to be dead after the day the warranty expires?
    You certainly seem to have difficulty with allowing individual owners to adjust their replacement strategies to fit their own personal situation / risk tolerance / budget / climate / resourcefulness / angst level / actual battery condition. Not everyone needs or wants to be shoehorned onto a one-calendar-fits-all schedule.

    And I have been avoiding true breakdowns while keeping batteries longer than you find permissible. By paying attention to them, I'm catching their warning signs, and replacing them when those warnings reach my comfort thresholds.

    ===========

    NB: OP is clearly on a replacement battery, not the factory unit, but nobody has asked him what its stated warranty period is. Is it a 12 month battery? 24? 60? 72? 84? Or even 96 months?
     
    #75 fuzzy1, Apr 17, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
  16. fuzzy1

    fuzzy1 Senior Member

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    Am I the only serious skier here? Everyone else a fair-weather softie?:)



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  17. Raytheeagle

    Raytheeagle Senior Member

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    I did my fair share of time in the frozen north (well north east to be exact);).

    Now if we want to experience that, we drive 2.5 hours to experience it, then drive home to where it’s not snowing or freezing :).

    Excellent setup out here(y).
     
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  18. sam spade 2

    sam spade 2 Senior Member

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    Sure. You can read almost anything somewhere these days.
    As you stated it, that is not true.

    The models that have AGM batteries age slower, in general, but they do wear out eventually.
    The basic chemistry is the same.

    AND.....it seems to me that this idea of yours isn't going to be useful until the battery DOES start getting weak and a portable jump pack would be a MUCH more useful and versatile tool for when it does. It can be used for other things too.
     
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  19. Danny3xd ()

    Danny3xd () Member

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    Just what I would do. Go to an auto parts store (I don't know how to read a meter) and ask it be tested. And go from there. Aside from cost, it's just wasteful to dump a battery until the bitter end. Or any parts IMVHO.

    Not say'n any other views are wrong. Just my approach.

    Doing my left rear brake pads this morning. Did the other side about 3 months ago. Aside from getting those extra miles, I also didn't have to throw away this set before absolutely necessary.
     
  20. kenoarto

    kenoarto Senior Member

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    I am a PSIA Level II instructor. Been teaching for 20 years. Love the snow. Enjoy the cold. But...it is NOT trivial when the car doesn't start and I am 60 miles from the hill. A dead battery means I miss a day's worth of lessons (takes a few hours to get a jump, buy the battery and do the install). And get $crewed if I can't find a coupon! And for those who don't do their own work, add another $100-200 for install...that easily pays for a preemptive battery replacement. IN SUMMARY: All car batteries eventually need to be replaced...there is only false logic in waiting to do basic maintenance...you are only saving pennies in interest as the money eventually must be spent (and then spending far MORE money if done in remote emergency situations/locations).
     
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