My 2013 Uber vehicle died after making a loud noise.

Discussion in 'Prius v Main Forum' started by gromittoo, Oct 8, 2021.

  1. privilege

    privilege Active Member

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    underneath (the bang) can sound like inside, sometimes.

    I would pull the battery and look

    of course, it's not a bad idea to use a temporary fuel source full of good real gasoline, instead of contaminated stuff, to make sure it's not a fuel issue as far as the ice goes.

    I'm expecting to see a bad battery
     
  2. gromittoo

    gromittoo Active Member

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    OK quick update as I have to take my wife to work.

    Got a call from the dealer this morning, before I had any caffeine . They did a fuel system bypass, which included cleaner for the injectors. They discovered that the PCV valve hose had come off (it was missing a clip). The SM told me that the Pop I heard must have been this hose popping off. The engine is now running, and the Hybrid Battery is OK.

    I informed him that I did an EGR + EGR Cooler + EGR IM pass ages cleaning, and that I replaced the PCV valve myself with a Toyota part. I have been monitoring EGR Flow Insufficiency, and was concerned that it had been dropping.

    So as it stands, I owe $300 +tax, and they recommend a recalibration of something, and replacing "the Purge Valve". The SM thinks that since I have Techstream, I can do it myself. I have a lot of questions, but I am not awake yet.
     
    #62 gromittoo, Oct 12, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2021
  3. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    Glad that was all that is. Could have been worse.

    When I take off hoses like the PCV hose that has spring clamps, I always leave the clamps on the hose downstream from the clamping area.
     
    #63 Georgina Rudkus, Oct 12, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2021
  4. jzchen

    jzchen Senior Member

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    PCV causes limp mode? I thought in the old days this was just vented out into atmosphere? Uncalled for danger mode???

    At least it wasn't something serious....

    REVVL V+ 5G ?
     
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  5. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sand Pounder

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    If a PCV hose “blows off” though, you now have a massive vacuum leak in the intake manifold. There might also be ramifications to a vented crankcase?
     
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  6. gromittoo

    gromittoo Active Member

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    I dropped my wife off at her work, and then went over to the dealer to get an answer while I was in that neighborhood.

    Here is what I was able to piece together, using the SM as interpreter:

    Apparently, the PCV hose fell off at some point. There is supposed to be a clip, and when I replaced the PCV valve as part of cleaning the IM, I apparently did not put the clip on the hose. I find the need for a clip surprising, since the hose has vacuum in it, but who knows. This loose hose caused a huge vacuum leak to the IM. Whenever the ICE was called apon to charge the Hybrid battery, it would cut out after 20-30 seconds as a result of the leak, but not throw a check engine light. Not sure when the hose came off.

    So basically, last Thursday, my car was running mostly off battery, since the ICE was only running 20-30 seconds at a time, and could not keep up the charge. No explanation for the loud bang, but it happened just as the Hybrid Battery was completely depleted. Reconnecting the hose with a clamp, the Tech discovered the ICE would run fine, and it can now charge the Hybrid battery. I would have expected that when I needed to go up a hill, I would have noticed a loss of power when the ICE cut out, which it did not.

    The tech also found a hose from the Evap Purge valve was off (not sure which side). The tech recommended replacing the purge valve, and re-calibrating the system with Techstream. I suspect that recommendation was made before the Tech knew I had done an EGR service. Again, I would have expected a Check Engine light with an Emissions code for this.

    I drove the car home, and everything was normal. They had fully charged the Hybrid battery, so I got like 68mpg on the way home. Still no explanation that I can believe for the loud bang that was heard.

    So the really great news is that the major systems including the Hybrid Battery, the Inverter, the ICE are all doing fine. They send their best wishes to your spouse and kids :)

    Total damage to my wallet: $320. Total damage to my self confidence: very hard to measure.

    I still have my spare vehicle (2001 voyager minivan 180k) up on jackstands. It overheated while my wife was taking it to work Saturday. Cold radiator, and no heat, Thermostat replaced last year. I assumed it was the water pump, because the impellers are known to break off on these pumps, turning the pump into a idler pulley. I had a new pump sitting around that I never got around to installing. Got the old pump out, and it was an upgraded pump with metal impellers, and was fine. Strange thing: new thermostats are double the price they were last year.

    So I have left the 2017 parked at the dealer, so I could drive the 2013 home. When I PU my wife at work at 6PM, she will drive the 2017 home.
     
    #66 gromittoo, Oct 12, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2021
  7. jzchen

    jzchen Senior Member

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    If it makes you feel any better I left the High Pressure fuel rail pressure sensor connector loose on my wife's Porsche. Dealer charged $5xx AND didn't figure it out! Car eventually stalled on us randomly until I bought a PIWIS 3, (Porsche equivalent to Techstream) for another $1429. Then I found my own fault.

    Let's hope your dealer caught the issue properly!...

    REVVL V+ 5G ?
     
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  8. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    The job description for a PCV valve has a lot of "other duties as assigned" parts. One of them:

    bang.png

    A backfire is one example of a moment when the hose does not have vacuum in it.
     
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  9. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    I believe that this is the valve. Part number is: 25860-37020.

    https://parts.conicellitoyotaofconshohocken.com/oem-parts/toyota-vacuum-switching-valve-assembly-2586037020?c=Zz1lbWlzc2lvbi1zeXN0ZW0mcz1lbWlzc2lvbi1jb21wb25lbnRzJmw9MTImbj1Bc3NlbWJsaWVzIFBhZ2UmYT10b3lvdGEmbz1wcml1cy12Jnk9MjAxMiZ0PXR3byZlPTEtOGwtbDQtZWxlY3RyaWMtZ2Fz

    I'll have to look for it under my car.
     
  10. xliderider

    xliderider Senior Member

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    It's located next to the intake manifold and throttle body. Screenshot_20211012-123828_Chrome.jpeg

    Posted via the PriusChat mobile app.
     
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  11. gromittoo

    gromittoo Active Member

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    I generally do the same thing. I don't remember there even being a clamp on that hose.

    I also store bolts in the threaded holes they came out of. Not always possible, but if it is possible, I don't have to figure out which bolt goes in which hole.
     
  12. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    Forget what you heard from the well hackneyed cliche averring, "Don't sweat the small stuff."

    In all technical fields, "The details are everything." As you have experienced, one small spring clamp resulted in a costly major failure.

    Airplanes have crashed killing a large number of people from the failure of one small part.
     
  13. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sand Pounder

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    Maybe MIA; there is one there, from factory. Just a slim wire one though.
     
  14. gromittoo

    gromittoo Active Member

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    Now that you mention it, I sort of recall the thin wire clamp. I would have most likely left it on the hose as I mentioned above, but possibly not. I guess that the oily mess that comes through that hose means that a clamp is required, in spite of the vacuum.

    I am still surprised that there was no CEL with such a large vacuum leak. It does not make sense that the hose came off at the time I heard the bang. The HV battery went to zero in 200 feet after the "bang" at about 25mph.
     
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  15. jzchen

    jzchen Senior Member

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    I guess since this is an Atkinson cycle engine the intake valves are left open for a period during the compression stroke and pushes an amount of air back into the intake.

    I could see myself removing such a clamp as without the nipple supporting the back may look like it would cut through the loose end of the tube, then forgetting/misplacing it...

    REVVL V+ 5G ?
     
  16. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    There's not much compression force in that clamp, but evidently, that really necessary. Manufacturers don't include anything that is not necessary for the function of the vehicle. While one clam is inexpensive, it is not, when hundreds of thousands are used which includes manual assembly.
     
  17. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Sand Pounder

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    When you installed the OCC did you retain the original hose at the original connection points, say by cutting the hose at the middle, adding barb (or Pex) hose splices (aka "menders")? That hose seems relatively pliable, making the thin wire hose clamps more effective, compared to something like SAE30R7 fuel line (or similar) that's added for the OCC.
     
  18. gromittoo

    gromittoo Active Member

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    Your reply had me google "Atkinson cycle engine". I had been under the impression that an Atkinson cycle engine had a multi-piece connecting rod, which I think was part of Atkinson's original 1880's design. I have seen videos of Gen3 engines that died with bent single piece connecting rods, so I was confused.

    The following link explains why the delayed intake valve closing at the beginning of the compression stroke makes it more efficient than the Otto engine. It only makes sense in a hybrid, because the Atkinson cycle has poor performance during low RPM. What surprises me is that the Atkinson valve timing is not used in fixed speed applications like backup generators, or engine driven sump pumps.

    What Is the Atkinson Combustion Cycle, and What Are Its Benefits?
     
  19. Georgina Rudkus

    Georgina Rudkus Senior Member

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    Being overly cautious, I used 3/8 fuel line hose and Corbin spring ear clamps, rotated the outlet end of the PCV hose and connected it with a custom machine PEEK (polyetheretherketone) barb connector. Since I had a HPS air intake and a K&N filter, the cleared out space of the OEM filter box provided the ideal space for the OCC. occ installed Prius V 001.jpg
     
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  20. gromittoo

    gromittoo Active Member

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    I did not install an OCC. I plan to install one someday, but the Trans fluid and Inverter coolant changes are ahead of it in line. My surprisingly clean spark plugs at 95k, and lack of oil consumption have made an OCC a lower priority for me.

    When I get to installing the OCC, I was hoping to splice into the existing hose.
     
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