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My first lifetime-alignment results

Discussion in 'Generation 1 Prius Discussion' started by ChapmanF, Oct 29, 2010.

  1. ChapmanF

    ChapmanF Senior Member

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    I hadn't had any alignment checking done on my 2001 since I bought it a couple years ago, and I figured after smacking a pot-chasm with the left front and then changing out a right rear hub, it could be about time. So, as suggested in other posts, I went to my local Firestone and got their lifetime alignment.

    I was sort of expecting to get printouts of before and after numbers, but I only got one set, labeled "current measurements". I don't know whether that means they found nothing worth changing, or they adjusted something but only printed the "after" measurements. (The guy at the counter didn't know, either.)

    Here they are:

    Column 1 Column 2 Column 3 Column 4
    0 Actual Range Actual parameter
    1 left front right front
    2 -0.8 -1.2 0.3 -0.8 Camber
    3 1.8 0.3 1.8 1.5 Caster
    4 0.03 -0.05 0.15 0.02 Toe
    5 0.05 -0.10 0.30 Total Toe
    6 0.00 -0.05 0.05 Steer Ahead
    7
    8 left rear right rear
    9 -1.5 -2.3 -0.8 -1.5 Camber
    10 -0.02 -0.12 0.22 0.19 Toe
    11 0.17 -0.23 0.43 Total Toe
    12 -0.10 Thrust Angle


    Firestone prints the numbers on little graphics that show the spec value with a narrow notch around it (the pretty-good range) inside a wider notch (the officially-tolerable range) and beyod that is out of spec.

    The best values are the rear camber (spot-on, both sides) and the front toe, both sides.

    Still in the pretty-good range but barely are the left rear toe, and front camber (both sides).

    Only in the officially-tolerable range (orange above) are the right rear toe (that's the hub I just replaced, tried pretty hard to have no grot behind it), and the right front caster.

    Pulling up last in red (though it's really right at the limit of tolerance) is the left front caster. That's the corner that met the pothole. I guess it's still closer than in the post from Bob, who also wasn't aware of a way to adjust the caster. Firestone didn't offer to fix it either, just handed me the printout showing it in red.

    Now, alignment and handling is a subject I'm not at home in, so I guess what I'm asking is, do any of these values seem worth following up and trying to get closer to spec, or would any benefit be small enough not to bother with?

    For example, would it be worthwhile to look at shimming the right rear (as has been covered here, here, here) to get the toe less extreme? Or is that only useful if it is farther out of spec?

    Thanks,
    -Chap
     
  2. drees

    drees Senior Member

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    IMO, the the caster isn't a big deal in the front unless the car seems to be pulling. I would have expected the LF caster to be lower if it was out because of the pothole you hit, though.

    I think shimming/fixing the rear toe is worth while.
     
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  3. xs650

    xs650 Senior Member

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    I agree with drees on the front. On the rear, the end result is that the car will crab down the road at a skewed angle.

    Since the thrust angle is only 0.10 degree, that means the rear tires will be wheelbase x sin(0.1) = 3/16 inch offset from the front wheels which is approximately nothing.

    Your rear total toe and thrust angle are very good which is more important than individual toe figures as long as everything is in spec.

    I would also be reluctant to shim the rear with your numbers because your rear camber is close to perfect and will likely be worse after shimming just because things were taken apart.
     
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  4. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    They only report a "before" if they change anything. In this case, the only thing they can adjust, toe, was good enough so they made no adjustment. Note, they always reduce the air pressure to door jam levels so you may need to reinflate your tires.

    Thanks!
    Comments:
    • front toe - about as close as possible so no change needed
    • front caster - not adjustable in our car
    • front camber - beyond a fraction of a degree, adjustable only by using a camber adjustment bolt. In my case, I found scalloping and early wear on the inner tread of the first tires. The passenger side was in the "green" but near the margin but the driver side was more vertical. So I replaced the passenger side, camber bolt and brought the camber to less than 1 degree.
    • rear toe - only adjustable by using shims and I prefer a toe closer to zero on both sides
    • rear camber - again, adjustable only by using shims, due to edge wear, I brought it to less than half a degree.
    But one thing has me concerned about the rear values.

    The rear axle is supposed to have some 'float'. We had a thread earlier about a process used to make sure the rear axle does not reflect the effects of a turn but I didn't find it with a quick search. I would not rule out the effects of the pothole you mentioned stressing the parts. Regardless, the rear wheel alignment is more than I would accept for both toe and camber.

    Agreed.

    I suspect the range is more for handling than tire wear and handling. Since I prefer to get maximum tire life by low wear, I go for having camber closer to vertical and toe near zero both front and rear.

    I would but then I'm a little nutty about some things. I would go with the EZ-shim and fix both rear wheels. Get a new reading and then I would order the front camber bolts and fix the front after the rear is dialed in.

    Front Wheel Camber Bolts

    The front wheel camber is handled by loosening the two bolts that hold the brake-axle assembly to the bottom of the MacPherson strut. But there are limits so a high-strength, adjusting bolt in the top hole is used to gain a little more 'wiggle' room:
    Column 1 Column 2 Column 3
    0 range bolt part number bolt identifier
    1 +/- 45' 90105-15001 no dots around "11"
    2 +/- 45'-1d* 90105-15004 one dot to left of "11"
    3 +/- 1d-1d 15' 90105-15005 two dots adding one lower right of "11"
    4 +/- 1d 15'-1d 30' 90105-15006 three dots adding one upper right of "11"
    * - "d" is for degrees and " ' " are minutes, 60 minutes to the degree. The table from Toyota maintenance manual, RM957U2, Volume 2, pp. SA-6.

    Alternatively, one can install two 90105-15006 bolts holes and this allows a full range from 45' to 1d 30'. These camber adjustment bolts are a little thinner so there is more range to move the wheel-strut linkage.

    Bob Wilson
     
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  5. xs650

    xs650 Senior Member

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    Bob, How are those bolts made? Do they just have a smaller diameter body to allow adjustment or is there an eccentric involved?
     
  6. bwilson4web

    bwilson4web BMW i3 and Model 3

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    Slightly smaller diameter in one area. The same size nuts work. The key is this is a major stress point and the weight of the car at that point goes through these bolts. Play "cheap" could lead to a steering and drive wheel coming loose and off. When they call out the torque values, I believe them.

    There are some 'after market' adjustment bolts around but I don't have enough information to comment one way or the other. The one web ad I saw suggested excentric slip shaft. Since the OEM parts are not that expensive, ~$5-7.00, go with the good stuff and not worry. The after market part was in a racing forum for folks who like to tune suspensions to their track.

    Bob Wilson
     
  7. xs650

    xs650 Senior Member

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    I've also seen the eccentric looking type offered by the same places selling rear axle shims. I prefer the eccentric type. They are easier to control when adjusting.
     
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