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My Gen 5 waiting list experience

Discussion in 'Gen 5 Prius Main Forum' started by Gokhan, Feb 23, 2024.

  1. AndersOne

    AndersOne Member

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    Its not just improvements in production- they remove more and more stuff from the car as well for cost cutting. From radar to USS (unless in China) and now stalks... that adds up as well.
     
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  2. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    Well, I test-drove one. It drives a little better, albeit having a vague, loose-feeling steering when you are driving straight—but compromises access, visibility, and space. With TSS 3.0 vs. TSS 2.0, it would be an upgrade over mine. Nevertheless, both Gen 4 and Gen 5 are great cars, and I am sure Gen 2 and Gen 3 are great cars, too.

    At the end, it boils down to money, which I don't have much of it, and I think it would be financially irresponsible for me to spend over $20,000 in car payments to upgrade a three-year-old car. Moreover, mine has already had most of its depreciation, and I could certainly wait until Gen 6 without losing a lot on my trade-in.
     
  3. voxbox

    voxbox Junior Member

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    We were lucky and were able to walk into a dealership a pick up a Midnight Black XSE Prime the same day. We picked it up last Monday 2/19.

    I had been checking dealer sites for any Prime to get a test drive before deciding on the car. No one had any in stock. On Monday morning I saw that a dealership that was around 30 miles away had a black prime that was not spoken for. We went over, took a test drive, and decided to get on a lease on the car as Toyota had the $4500 lease cash offer. There were no markups and our price was $39204. This was an XSE with a glass roof.
     
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  4. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    I am guessing that despite the $4,500 cashback when you lease, the car costs a lot more in comparison to purchasing it with a loan. Am I wrong?
     
  5. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    I did the calculations for lease with the $4,500 cashback vs. purchase, assuming 10,000 miles a year.

    2024 Prius Prime XSE Premium

    MSRP: $41,563
    Total purchase with taxes: $45,621
    60-month loan payments with 6.04% interest: $900
    Trade-in value at 3 years/30,000 miles: $28,640
    36-month lease payments: $25,829 (including the initial payments with cashback)
    36-month loan payment cost: $21,098

    So, these are the results:

    At 36 months, the lease costs $25,829 with cashback.
    At 36 months, the purchase costs $24,858 with trade-in.

    The lease costs with buyout at 36 months: $54,469
    The purchase cost at 60 months: $54,000

    So, purchase is slightly less expensive both with or without buyout despite the $4,500 lease cashback.
     
    #25 Gokhan, Feb 25, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2024
  6. ken2023

    ken2023 Junior Member

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    Yeah well I think you're making the right move, upgrading to the Gen 5, but since you're in no rush though, maybe forget the waiting lists, wait a few more months, some analysts have been predicting excess inventory, will drive down prices, and Toyota is increasing Prius production by 65% for 2024, and probably increase again for 2025.
     
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  7. Mr.Vanvandenburg

    Mr.Vanvandenburg Active Member

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    Has anyone mentioned your depreciating car as you wait? The three year then sell is based on the car getting a high price. Dealers aren’t doing that so much I don’t think. That party is about over. For $44000 it is not going to happen for me, ever. That’s with tax and license. Plus license in CA will stay high for a good many years.
     
  8. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    Yes, I used $28,640 for the 3-year resale price in my calculations.
     
    #28 Gokhan, Feb 25, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2024
  9. Zeromus

    Zeromus Member

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    Generally the math is better to buy vs lease. But I have seen ppl do lease and buyout within a year cash to get a cashback
     
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  10. Preebee

    Preebee Senior Member

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    You don't know what you're talking about. Leases can be FAR superior to buying outright. It all depends on the terms, how much you drive, and your personal financial strategy.

    When leasing a car, you're only paying for the depreciation over the term of the lease (which can be negotiated). This lowers your taxes over outright purchase.

    Lease payments are generally much lower than loan payments. And if you're the kind of person that wants to be under warranty at all times, and trades in every three years, leases can make fantastic sense.

    The thousands of dollars you save a year leasing can be put right back into the market. Never pay for tires, or so much as a windshield wiper replacement. Like I said, it's a strategy.

    And if you happen to be in a car that depreciates much more than expected (hello electric cars), you are protected. I got a lease on a Mazda once that should have landed me in jail. The tale is legendary.

    Check out the Leasehackr website. And for the love of God, stop speaking with a tone of authority on topics you know nothing about.
     
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  11. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    Yes, I redid the calculations, and the lease seems to be slightly more expensive than a loan even with the $4,500 cashback. See my post above.

    Moreover, with the lease option, you put more down payment upfront and pay a possibly higher interest rate for a used-car loan for a buyout option.

    So, I prefer a purchase, but others may find a lease more suitable, depending on their preferences and available specials and how they invest their cash. The current $4,500 special doesn't seem to be that great though. If there were a factory rebate on purchase, it would have been definitely a much better deal. Perhaps the factory rebates will come back in the near future.
     
  12. Zeromus

    Zeromus Member

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    If you intend to keep the car long term, or are even considering a lease buyout from day 1, then buying is always better. But if someone is considering only keeping the car for 3-5 years, you're better off leasing. The reason is that both having some amount of financing involved, and while a lease is cheaper monthly, you still have to buy a depreciated vehicle at the end if you want to keep it. And if you want to sell it, the financing costs on ownership will outstrip the cost of the lease if you sell at a depreciated value.

    Only in the last few years did buying *always* make more sense because financing was so cheap and car value was kept so obscenely high. Basically, anyone who bought a car in 2018/19 and traded it in/up in 21/22 won the auto lottery because they could get more than they paid on the trade in. And assuming the car they wanted was available they could get a newer nicer car with the same if not lower monthly payments not just because of lower interest but having actually *built* equity in a traditionally depreciating vehicle.

    Outside that bubble lease/buy has always come down to: long term ownership intended - buy, short term ownership intended - lease. Low mileage drivers who like the security of warranties and zero maintenance have always come out with leases. Higher mileage drivers who have the financial means to buy a completely new vehicle they intend to keep long term have always come out ahead with buying outright and even financing if the ownership period stretched out far enough. And people who don't have new car cash but have significant cash savings for a car come out ahead with used vehicle purchases because the depreciation isn't a concern shortening how long one has to own the car to even make the higher financing cost worth it.

    I've only ever had 10+ year old beaters before this car. The newest car I ever owned was probably my first car in 2008, which was an 11 year old Tercel (that was not super well cared for by my cousin who had it as his first new car when he was young). It was an econobox with rusty brake lines and undercarriage, and when the brakes lost all pressure one day with my now wife in the car, she refused to step foot in it again. Luckily enough, our now 21 year old car we got in 2018 is still going. It has been well taken care of and so we felt good buying new for my wife's longer daily commute and safe for our 2 kids - hence the prius prime. Making aggressive payments its paid in under 3 years, and gas savings over 10-15 years as we keep it well maintained will add up quickly for us.

    My only concern for us now, is what we do when the 03 dies. We only have a 1 car garage, don't use the second car too often, and I don't exactly want to park the prime outside in the future if we get another plug in. Which we likely won't since it won't be worth it financially. But maybe I'll get an older used prius for cheaper as a second car and park that outside. Though living in a rust common area, I worry about how well people care for their undercarriages too :p Though this likely won't be a worry for 2 or 3 more years with super young kids. Maybe the Gen 6 prius will make sense for us then. Who knows.
     
    #32 Zeromus, Feb 26, 2024
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2024
  13. hill

    hill High Fiber Member

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    First thing to do upon acquiring a new or newish car .... undercoat the $@i¶ out of it - in order to prevent rust. Cars have plenty of rust proofing underneath - but VERY soon - you will start getting rock dings underneath your car - as well as along the sides / fenders as many frozen areas will gravel their roads for traction ... as well that nasty stuff they use around here, potassium chloride - which - although melts road ice, it's quite destructive to metal auto bodies & undercarriages. Some of the rust buckets around here look like they just drove them out of the scrap yard.
    .
     
  14. Zeromus

    Zeromus Member

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    I had my car at the rust proofing/oil spray place about 2 weeks after I bought the car. I didn't get it "undercoated" with any of that permanent stuff, but after I made sure it was likely warranty safe, I got the thing oil sprayed.
     
  15. Mr.Vanvandenburg

    Mr.Vanvandenburg Active Member

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    You think a dealer will give$28,640, and you are buying a car on a waiting list? I would say 20, or maybe 15, they have no problem with doing that right to the face.
     
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  16. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    $28,640 was the buyout price I estimated for the 2024 Prius Prime XSE Premium at the end of the 36-month lease. It is a $41.6k car.

    The trade-in price for my 2021 Prius Prime Limited should be at least $23,000. It is a $35.7k three-year-old fully loaded PHEV. It is no Corolla.
     
  17. Mr.Vanvandenburg

    Mr.Vanvandenburg Active Member

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    I’m a speed reader excuse. Why not keep the car you like? Trading cars adds 10% tax and license. License is considerably higher in CA the higher the price is. It takes a long timeto settle down to the lowest amount.
    At the end of the day it doesn’t matter much lease or buy our cars as we rest amongst the flowers.
     
  18. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    Well, I like my blue 2021 Prius Prime Limited, and I am keeping it. I didn't like my silver 2020 Prius Prime XLE as much; so, that's why I traded it in. The Limited has all the electronic safety pictures and all the other bells and whistles, and I also got a better color, not to mention TSS 2.0 on it vs. TSS-P on the 2020. Moreover, it was rebates and credits galore for PHEVs at that time, and you would actually make money if you traded it in. The interest rates were rock-bottom, too.

    I would trade it in for a Gen 5, but at the moment, it's too expensive for me.
     
  19. Gokhan

    Gokhan Senior Member

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    It looks like the depreciation of my car has saturated at this point, and the trade-in price will be no longer significantly affected by mileage or model year for the next couple of years.

    I will probably wait for a couple of years and then trade it in for a 2026 Prius Prime SE. Who knows, by that time, we may even get the factory rebates and dealer discounts back. In any case, at that time, my car payments should be less than $200 a month.
     
  20. AndersOne

    AndersOne Member

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    Lets see if there will be a 2026 Prius Prime. I feel like a ordered a unicorn from a long gone era.