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My idea of the perfect Prius fighter!!

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by That_Prius_Car, Apr 22, 2011.

  1. That_Prius_Car

    That_Prius_Car Austin Kinser

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    Honda thought they had a winner on their hands when they introduced the 2010 Insight... boy were they ever wrong.


    The failure: The Insight was introduced in late 2009 with much anticipation that it was surely, the Prius killer due to it's low price.

    Okay, firstly, the first person to make that claim was very wrong. The Insight is a compact car, the rear seat has very little head room, and leg room. (I couldn't even sit in the middle of the Insight's rear seat because the roof line was so far down, and I'm only 5'8!)

    On top of all that, the car feels very unsettled on the road. I found that it wondered around a bit, plus, you could seriously feel every crack in the road.

    The interior plastics are alright, but they constantly remind you that your driving a car with affordability in mind. For example, you can place your index finger on the top of the dash and push down slightly, and the dash actually flexes. If you open the hatch, half of the door is covered with plastic, but the top half of the hatch is just spray painted metal.

    Performance doesn't really matter to me, but for those of you who are wondering, the CVT is the "cone & belt" type, so acceleration from a dead stop makes it feel like the belts are slipping, or the engine is bogging down. It's kind of hesitates, like it's saying "Oh no, we have to move AGAIN?" 0-60mph arrives in about 11 seconds.

    What I laugh at the most isn't the poor quality, or the ride...No, it's the miles per gallon figure. 40city / 43highway.

    Okay, so there are what...about three or four different gasoline only cars that get the same if not better mileage now.

    I'll use the new Elantra for example. It's a very nice car, fit in finish looks great, and the car starts at $14,883. Drivers like you and I claim they have gotten up to 43mpg on the highway, and about 32 in the city, compared to what people get in the Insight, which is about 45-46mpg, but the basic Insight is about $4,000 dollars more.

    So, in my own personal opinion, this is what I believe Honda should really consider with the next generation Insight.

    Lower base price to about $17,000, that way it's noticeably a lot more affordable than a Prius, which could be more appealing to a lot of people.

    Really make the quality better. I'm sure there are ways to have good, cheap plastic and make it look stylish and comfortable.

    Increase the size to about the size of a Gen.II Prius.

    Refine the IMA system. It should get at least near or right at the same miles per gallon as the current Prius.

    That's all I can think of for now. Sorry about my rant. :D

    Not that I'm taking Honda's side, I love the Prius dearly and will never drive anything else, just stating that if they want a "true" Prius fighter, it needs to cost a lot less, enough to let people know that they are saving money. Have comfort levels at or near the Prius', and achieve close to the Prius' miles per gallon figures. Do that, and you'll truly have a Prius fighter.

    All idea's are welcome! What are your thoughts?
     
    #1 That_Prius_Car, Apr 22, 2011
  2. That_Prius_Car

    That_Prius_Car Austin Kinser

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    I'm using the Elantra as an example because it gets close to the Insights efficiency, but cost's thousands less. Even the fully loaded Elantra cost's about $2,000 dollars less, yet you get SO much more with the Elantra! Like smart entry & smart start, back-up camera, heated front AND rear seats! 7' navigation screen, ect.

    I'm going to post pictures of the Elantra here, and then below, pictures of the Insight.
     

    Attached Files:

    #2 That_Prius_Car, Apr 22, 2011
  3. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

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    i wonder if those elantra numbers are real world? some say the insight does better than epa. we all know the prius does, but some cars have a hard time meeting the epa numbers. as for honda, i still think they will be hard pressed to come up with a hybrid system the beats hsd either in price, quality or mpg's.
     
    #3 bisco, Apr 22, 2011
    2 people like this.
  4. mmcdonal

    mmcdonal Active Member

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    Not to mention the Insight battery failure problems. Honda's fix: reprogram the hybrid ecu's so the battery is used less, mpg goes down, and the batteries fail outside of warranty. Ta-da!

    You forgot to mention that the Insight is fugly. You might have mentioned it, but I wanted to mention it again.

    There are several new 2012 mid-size ICE models that better or match the Insight's mpg (but, of course, cost more.) The point is, larger car, better mileage. Why pay for a Honda hybrid at all?

    Honda's hybrid attempts have mostly been failures. They even had to pull the Accord hybrid after a few years of production. Honda has focused on that automotive oxymoron, the "performance hybrid." Better mileage, more power! Oh yeah, about 400# more weight, I always forget that part. So the power is a wash, and the handling suffers. Why can't I ever get that straight!? </Honda engineer impression></Honda rant>
     
    #4 mmcdonal, Apr 22, 2011
  5. donee

    donee New Member

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    Hi All,

    My idea of a Prius fighter, would be a HSD Ford Focus, with front wheel motors for MG2 (seperate inverter bridge for each wheel!) (4 wheel motors for the uber sports option), 1.3 liter 3 cylinder engine (electric supercharged for the touring option) and a 3 KWH/40 hp battery.

    AND NO STUPID CENTER CONSOLE!!
     
    #5 donee, Apr 22, 2011
  6. jadziasman

    jadziasman Prius owner emeritus

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    Many of the new 2012 cars like the Elantra have direct injection ICEs. Mazda has had them for several years already but chose to use them in Mazdaspeeds instead of downsizing to improve mpg like the Chevy Cruize and Elantra do.

    It's difficult to believe the EPA hwy ratings, though. These new cars weigh over 2500 lbs and overcoming inertia is THE main mpg killer. Hence the reason the city rating for the direct injection engines still are subpar.

    Where I live and drive, the weather kills mpg via high crosswinds, cold temps, and wet pavement. Just as these conditions affect my Prius mpg they must for cars with DI ICE.

    Your mileage WILL vary, depending on many, many factors. For now, I'm satisfied with the 45 to 50 mpg I get with my '05 Prius.

    I want my next car to get over 60 mpg but it's going to take some time for plug in hybrids to take off. I don't believe full electrics are going to be the answer. A vehicle similar to a Volt with a much smaller ICE (600 cc) and much less bulk (2000 lbs max) will be the answer. The question is: who's going to build it?
     
    #6 jadziasman, Apr 22, 2011
  7. That_Prius_Car

    That_Prius_Car Austin Kinser

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    I don't understand though, at this point in time, why haven't they dropped the IMA system and started developing a full hybrid system, even if they didn't borrow patents from HSD, even if it was the cheaper THS.
     
    #7 That_Prius_Car, Apr 22, 2011
  8. That_Prius_Car

    That_Prius_Car Austin Kinser

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    No to mention that I talked to a guy a few months back at a gas station in Indiana who was driving a black 2010 Insight who claimed he only achieved 39mpg on the highway, and about 35 in the city.

    Mainly because you can't drive the Insight in pure electric mode, the gas engine starts up right after you take your foot off the brake.
     
    #8 That_Prius_Car, Apr 22, 2011
  9. Chuck.

    Chuck. Former Honda Enzyte Driver

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    This main thing is Honda needs to replace the IMA with a full hybrid system...one that is reliable.

    It's a shame a really good automaker does not already have good hybrids.
     
    #9 Chuck., Apr 22, 2011
  10. That_Prius_Car

    That_Prius_Car Austin Kinser

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    I agree. A full hybrid system has so many advantages over a mild hybrid.

    At the very least, Honda should replace the very outdated D-Cell battery's they use currently. Luckily, the new Civic hybrid has lithium-ion batteries. Go to Honda.com and look at the Civic hybrid, they've updated it to the new 2012 model, it looks promising.
     
    #10 That_Prius_Car, Apr 22, 2011
  11. Chuck.

    Chuck. Former Honda Enzyte Driver

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    I drive a 2000 Honda Insight and I can still get 100mpg @ 55mph in warm weather.

    Problem is I need the replace the battery pack as it is shot. Then it will be great once again.

    I'm getting by because it's so lightweight, streamlined and the gas engine is super efficient.

    __________________________

    I call the IMA an "electric flywheel". The concept was make the gas engine 2/3 of what it normally be and let the electric flywheel occasionally make up for the missing 1/3 on hills, from a complete stop, passing, etc.

    Problem with the IMA is more then the dated battery tech, but the software to protect it falls well short of what Toyota did....Honda has no excuse on the software faults.

    _______________________________

    I do entertain the thought of lithium batteries and while it can't be a true PHEV, a mixed-mode hybrid that easily gets 100mpg - even for normal drivers and during the winter.
     
    #11 Chuck., Apr 22, 2011
  12. richard schumacher

    richard schumacher shortbus driver

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    It's hard to see how the PSD can be bettered with existing technology. Maybe a pure series hybrid with a Diesel engine could do it, but even that would benefit from improved batteries.
     
    #12 richard schumacher, Apr 24, 2011
  13. That_Prius_Car

    That_Prius_Car Austin Kinser

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    Yes, I think improving the batteries is vital to improving a hybrid.
     
    #13 That_Prius_Car, Apr 24, 2011
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