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Navigation Bug in 2004 (2005(?)) Prius Nav

Discussion in 'Gen 2 Prius Audio and Electronics' started by aforkosh, Jan 29, 2007.

  1. aforkosh

    aforkosh Active Member

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    I have evidence of a navigation bug in my 2004 Prius. The DVD for the system is the 2005 DVD which was made available at no charge to 2004 owners. On long distance travel, the Nav system may default to route primarily using Interstate Highways even when it shows other routes are faster and shorter.

    I set up a route from Oakland, California to Santa Barbara, California, a distance of 330 miles or so via the most direct route (primarily using Highway 101--four to six lane divided, freeway in urban or town areas). The Nav system prefers a route that goes inland to Interstate 5 and approaches Santa Barbara from the opposite direction. When you ask the Nav system to show 3 routes rather than just the preferred route, the I-5 route is first while the Quick2 and Shortest routes both use Highway 101. The I-5 route is about 80 miles longer than the other two routes and travel time for it is over 30 minutes longer. So why is the I-5 route the default?
     
  2. jrfaris

    jrfaris Member

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    I can't explain why it would prefer a longer and slower route but some of this depends on how you set the defaults for the different levels of highways/streets. If there is a large difference between main road and highway speeds, then it will bias the fastest selection to what it considers highway routes. While I would consider US101 is a major highway, it's hard to say how the Nav would classify it since it has many sections that are not controlled access and have cross traffic. If you want to change the calculation, you can adjust the average speeds it uses for major streets and highways under Menu/Settings.
    FYI - when I route to my brother's place in Santa Barbara, the Quick1 and Shortest routes are about the same at 295 miles going down US 101. The Quick2 route goes out to I5 and is about 425 miles, but takes <strike>only slightly longer that </strike> about an hour longer than Quick1.

    Edit- must have been asleep when I posted last night. Actually I calculate a significantly longer time on I5. See the more detailed information I will post below.
     
  3. aforkosh

    aforkosh Active Member

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    The defaults should control the speeds used for various segments and then the ultimate time of the route. I imagine that the routes are constructed in a piecewise fashion. but it is strage that there is not a consistency check at the end of the process that discovers that one of secondary choices is more optimal than the primary.
     
  4. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    This is something you can adjust....The default for interstate is, I think, 50mph. Obviously most of us go 70-75mph on interstates. If you change the speed to 70mph in the set-up it'll make the time for that route shorter and will likely default to that.

    Also, be sure that you have your preferences set up right. I had one time the NAV kept taking me off the interstate and I found that somehow the default had been changed and I made it avoid interstates.
     
  5. dmckinstry

    dmckinstry New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(efusco @ Jan 29 2007, 01:56 AM) [snapback]382206[/snapback]</div>
    My problem is typically trying to keep me on the interstate, even though an alternate route (which would be 50 mph) is at least 30 miles and 30 min. shorter. I'd be traveling slower on the interstate in that area than on the bypass.

    Dave M.
     
  6. jrfaris

    jrfaris Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aforkosh @ Jan 29 2007, 12:28 AM) [snapback]382200[/snapback]</div>
    I tried some different default speeds but with my south bay location, but I can't reproduce your problem. There may just be too much distance difference between US101 and I5 for me. Even by bumping the highway speed up to 70 mph, I couldn't make I5 come out quicker. The 3 speed options and default speeds that I have are residential (25mph), main street (35) and highway (55). I normally bias highway up to 60mph but if it is set much higher, it want's to take me out to the freeway for just about every local trip I make. The fact that it would select a slower "quick" route is strange. What exactly are the 2 quick and slowest route calculations you get for your Oakland-Santa Barbara trip?
     
  7. auricchio

    auricchio Member

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    Be advised that US101 switches back and forth between freeway and non-freeway many times between the Bay Area and Santa Barbara. (A freeway must have on- and off-ramps; if there are side roads and intersections, it can't be a freeway.)

    This causes the Nav to compute the US101 travel times using a mix of Freeway and "Other Highway" speed values you entered in its Setup menu. Since the Nav must make a route decision before you start moving, it uses these speeds as its best guess for time enroute.

    Therefore, the Nav comes up with an all-freeway time on I-5 that's quicker than US101. That's because it assumes you're slowing to the non-freeway "other highway" speed on portions of US101. Naturally, you won't slow down, but it doesn't know that.

    Also, the Nav may make the "quickest" decision based on a few minutes' difference, which is trivial to us.

    (You can see US101 displayed in two different colors along its length, showing its change from freeway to highway.)
     
  8. efusco

    efusco Moderator Emeritus
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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aforkosh @ Feb 2 2007, 03:23 PM) [snapback]384643[/snapback]</div>
    Again, it will do that if it is a more preferable route...more freeway, fewer stops, no ferries, etc. Also, if you adjust the default speeds it will adjust the preferences some. In any case, you get to pick from the 3 routes so just pick the one that you prefer.
     
  9. aforkosh

    aforkosh Active Member

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    Everyone, please read my original post carefully.

    The total time COMPUTED BY THE NAV SYSTEM for both Quick2 and Shortest is FASTER than the time computed for Quick1 by at least 5%. Without changing the speed defaults the system is still not picking the fastest route as the default among the ones it shows. The system appears to be missing a consistency check for this.
     
  10. aforkosh

    aforkosh Active Member

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    Here are the details of the 3 routes calculated. These routes are from my home in near Piedmont Av in Oakland, CA to an address in the beach area of Santa Barbara, CA:

    Quick 1 (the default--goes east to I-5, to a point southeast of Santa Barbara, heads to coast at Ventura and back to Santa Barbara)
    405 miles--7hr38 min--372 freeway miles

    Quick 2 (proceeds almost directly south, then Highway 101 and over San Marcos Pass to SB)
    320 miles--7hr8min--196 freeway miles

    Short (a minor variation on Quick 2)--
    318 miles--7hr9min--189 freeway miles.

    So, as you can see, the default route chosen is both longer and slower than the Quick 2 route by a reasonable margin. Again, I would assume that a route chosen as the default quickest route would be the quickest that the onboard system had found. The algorithm appears to be missing a final check that would look at thte routes actually found using various models and show the quickest as the default.
     
  11. jrfaris

    jrfaris Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(aforkosh @ Feb 5 2007, 11:32 PM) [snapback]385947[/snapback]</div>
    Another post provides some additional insight on this. If the built in road speed information can actually reflect the true travel speeds on I5 then it could easily become the recommended route when compared to speeds appropriate for many sections of US101. The ETA calculations using the less detailed main street and highway speed numbers would not accurately reflect this variation.