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Navy leads the way in advanced fuels!

Discussion in 'Fred's House of Pancakes' started by ozyran, May 8, 2007.

  1. ozyran

    ozyran New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE("military.com")</div>
    (Full Story)

    I think this is pretty cool, especially since it coincided with my wife and I celebrating our 3rd anniversary. Unfortunately, I couldn't be there for the ceremony :(

    There's supposed to be many more where this one came from; we'll see what happens in the next few years.
     
  2. Pinto Girl

    Pinto Girl New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(ozyran @ May 8 2007, 05:37 PM) [snapback]437828[/snapback]</div>
    Happy Anniversary!!

    ----

    Hyman Rickover would be proud; but...didn't the NAUTILUS first become operational in '54?

    This seems more evolutionary than revolutionary.
     
  3. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    I hope our military puts all this money we dump into it to good use and creates more scientific information and technology that we can use to increase our efficiency in many sectors.

    They've come up with a lot of good stuff in the past. :)
     
  4. Pinto Girl

    Pinto Girl New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(F8L @ May 9 2007, 03:39 PM) [snapback]438511[/snapback]</div>
    Hey, they can put a man on the moon...now, why can't they make underwear that doesn't ride up?!?
    [laughing]

    Not to sound contrarian or 'nuthin, but I feel like we frequently confuse speed and efficiency. Efficiency saves; speed costs.
     
  5. F8L

    F8L Protecting Habitat & AG Lands

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Pinto Girl @ May 9 2007, 01:54 PM) [snapback]438524[/snapback]</div>

    LOL!

    No, when I mean efficiency I mean it in the engineering sense. Less resources or energy to achieve a task. :)
     
  6. ozyran

    ozyran New Member

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    Yes, the Nautilus was commissioned back in '54; in fact, she sits about a mile away from my house - if you could get there in a straight line. Connecticut, however, won't allow such a thing.

    Thanks for the wishes! The wife sends her thanks as well.

    As far as being advanced, I'm sure there's a lot in that boat that even the crew don't know about. However, I think nuclear power is definitely advanced even in the 21st century, and I hope to see it more thoroughly developed and explored. In fact, my computer is nuclear powered; the region I live in is powered by Millstone, which is a nuclear plant not too far away.

    In spite of all the concern about the radioactive waste, I still think nuke power is a good direction to go, and an option that I don't believe to be well enough explored. Same for geothermal power.

    I hope that much of what the military does can be translated into the civilian sectors as well. Fact is, though, I don't think there's much else than *can* find its way into the civilian sector, unless nuclear power becomes more widespread in the marine industry. However, in due time I'm sure more will make it's way into the civilian markets.
     
  7. airportkid

    airportkid Will Fly For Food

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    Four commercial nuclear seagoing vessels have been attempted worldwide, 1 each by the USA, Europe, Japan and Russia. All but the Russian ship were begun in the 60s and abandoned as viable nuclear ventures within 2 decades. The USA ship (Savannah) is a museum, the European ship is now fuel-oil powered and sailing under a different name, as is the Japanese vessel. Only the Russians have made a success of their ship, and I suspect that success may have more to do with ship's icebreaking prow, making it useable in the arctic, than with its nuclear plant. The Russians have about 10 nuclear purpose built icebreakers in addition to the icebreaking nuclear merchant ship.

    So what's the difference that the military is able to successfully apply nuclear power to ships while the commercial sector can't make it practical? Efficiency is efficiency, after all.

    Unless the military does it strictly for the "prestige".

    I don't know. What do you think?

    Mark Baird
    Alameda CA
     
  8. Pinto Girl

    Pinto Girl New Member

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    <div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(airportkid @ May 9 2007, 05:21 PM) [snapback]438591[/snapback]</div>
    I don't know for sure, but I think that some aspects of nuclear proplusion might make it more appropriate for the military than for civilian purposes.

    In the case of submarines, nuclear is advantageous 'cause they can run submerged for long periods of time.

    In surface ships, it allows extened high speed running without depleting fuel reserves/requiring frequent high-seas replenishment, and also frees up space normally used for fuel bunkers for additional munitions (or in the case of aircraft carriers, additional aviation fuel capacity).

    I don't think it's about saving money, first and foremost...they're seeking other kinds of efficiencies.

    Also, in this post 9/11 environment, I'm wondering if commercial seagoing reactors could be potential terrorist targets...so many more regs surrounding nukes than Diesel engines.
     
  9. ozyran

    ozyran New Member

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    Well, you see, the thing is this: the United States Navy spends a huge amount of time and energy to ensure that all of their nuclear plants maintain top operating condition - be it on a carrier, or on a sub.

    I think some companies may just be flat out afraid to invest the time required to run such a vessel. Something else to consider is the fact that a nuclear-trained and qualified plant operator is not going to be easy - or cheap - to find. AFIAK, most nuke sailors that get out of the Navy have absolutely no intention of going back to the seafaring life. Like Pinto Girl said, first and foremost, they're seeking other kinds of efficiencies. Cost effectiveness is probably one of those things.

    All that said, however, I do think that the companies running the commercial shipping lanes have the financial muscle required to do such a project. I also believe that regulation of commercial seagoing plants would not be a difficult thing, although it would be very complicated at first. And they run the ships that would benefit the most - the superfreighters.

    After all, I'd consider running a nuke plant if I had to run this thing:
    [​IMG]

    She burns 1,660 gallons of heavy fuel oil per hour, which equates, roughly, to about $5K/hour, if marine grade diesel is priced at $3.00/gallon. Now, say you're on a voyage from Yokosuka, Japan to San Diego, CA. That's approximately a 4,800 nm one-way voyage. Most supertankers run at a constant speed of about 16 knots. That's a 12.5 day trip (or 300 hours) if the supertanker maintains speed and course in a straight line. So, altogether, to make that kind of run, you spend $1,500,000.00! I would definitely consider converting to nuclear power.

    Wow, I just thought about it and that vessel gets 103...gallons per nautical mile! And that's *IF* you're doing 16 knots. And you thought your neighbor's International CXT got bad gas mileage...