Need a crash course on PIP

Discussion in 'Gen 1 Prius Plug-in 2012-2015' started by Frontporch, Nov 14, 2022.

  1. Frontporch

    Frontporch Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2015
    278
    52
    0
    Location:
    Nj
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I have owned several 2nd gen Prius and have always had my eye on a 3rd gen with a sunroof. Been waiting a while for the right car. I now see a 2012 PIP that has 225k miles without a sunroof. Don't know the full history of the vehicle, but I also don't now anything about the PIP platform and what to expect or watch out for in a used car.

    If the community could fill me in with information to guide the purchase of a well used 2012 PIP model it would be appreciated. The seller only mentioned some minor cosmetic issues and a brake light that needs "reset". In the second gen that might indicate a brake modulator gone south which is not an insignificant repair.

    Thanks!!
     
  2. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    99,934
    45,291
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    basically, everything that applies to gen3 applies to pip. weak points are egr, pistons, rings head gasket, oil burning, intake manifold, inverter, brake actuator

    on the phev side, no spare tire and small under deck storage. historically, the car has been quite robust, with very few battery failures or degradation.

    doc prius might do a health check, idk.

    make sure you get 2 working fobs and metal keys, check all functions.

    make sure you get an evse, plug it in and make sure it is charging

    ideally, ask the owner to charge it up before you arrive, because it takes 3 hours with supplied L1 evse, or 1 1/2 with optional L2 at 240v.

    you need a warmish day to test range so that the engine won't come on.
    hvac must be at 'low' and fan off, no front defrost.
    most people get between 6 and 14 miles before the battery is empty and the engine fires, depending on speed, accel, hills, stop/start, climate, etc.
     
    Mendel Leisk likes this.
  3. Frontporch

    Frontporch Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2015
    278
    52
    0
    Location:
    Nj
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    Not too familiar with the Gen 3, but your reply is perfect.

    EGR and Intake manifold is cleaning/mainenance I believe, not sure how to test for oil consumption, but I can look for some signs. Can you test head gasket leaks in the radiator like some other cars?

    I believe the brake actuator manifests itself in frequent pumping/priming noises.

    Another question I just thought of....
    The current owner has put on about 25K miles/yr and has not plugged in the Prius. Any potential issues with that feature not being exercised?
    Also, in general, is there an advantage to the PIP if you don't plug in? I don't have long hilly drives, but I may soon. Just wondering if that "extra" storage gets used in a long downhill or any other time.
     
    #3 Frontporch, Nov 15, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2022
  4. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Underfoot

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    49,042
    34,976
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Oh yeah: that, plus the miles (225K), will mean if if he gives you a blank look if you mention "EGR", it very likely is into head gasket failure, alleviated by stop-leak products. Ask if he would mind if you check the EGR pipe, this procedure:

     
  5. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    99,934
    45,291
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    correct on the egr. oil burning is a tough one, because your usually watching the level as you put on miles to determone. idk if the plugs or tail pipe might provide evidence.

    correct on the actuator, it's a ticking time bomb, but not everyone fails. same with inverter.

    no worries on not plugging in, lithium prefers the low state of charge, so that's actually a good thing.

    there may be a 1 or 2 mpg benefit to the larger lithium battery over the smaller nimh in the lift back
     
  6. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Underfoot

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    49,042
    34,976
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    On the oil consumption, you "might" get lucky, if it's an oil burner and they're dumb enough to not top it up before you come for a look. So, doesn't hurt to check the dipstick, on level ground.

    If there's lot of oil spilled around the filler cap too, might be a clue.

    Or a case of oil bottles and a funnel, in the hatch, lol.

    Come to think of it, 225k miles, and no plug-in, and the year (had the low-tension rings), it likely is a serious oil burner. Almost a miracle if it isn't.

    Bottom line, high mileage 3rd gen's for sale are almost invariably junk.
     
    #6 Mendel Leisk, Nov 15, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2022
    bisco likes this.
  7. Frontporch

    Frontporch Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2015
    278
    52
    0
    Location:
    Nj
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I have seen evidence of oil burning in toyotas in the past with sludge caked in the oil filler cap and some soot residue by the tailpipe. i guess both may not be a thing on the prius or can be cleaned. Plugs would be a good place to check, but I am not sure I would want a car shopper pulling my plugs.

    Sad to hear about the gen3 being at end of life typically with those miles. My gen2 seems to be going strong at the same or more miles

    I don't mind putting in some time replacing parts as needed, but replacement motors aren't cheap and I could swallow replacing a leaking head gasket, but rings are a little out of my league
     
  8. Mendel Leisk

    Mendel Leisk Underfoot

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2010
    49,042
    34,976
    80
    Location:
    Greater Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
    Vehicle:
    2010 Prius
    Model:
    Touring
    Maybe not the cheapest, but I think the most expedient way to deal with knackered pistons/rings would be a new short block. Or maybe a quality refurbished short block, if that's possible.

    Example of "new", hopefully for real:

    https://www.ebay.ca/itm/302537132072
     
    #8 Mendel Leisk, Nov 15, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2022
  9. Frontporch

    Frontporch Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2015
    278
    52
    0
    Location:
    Nj
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    sounds like any gen3 with high miles needs a compression check as part of the inspection
     
    bisco likes this.
  10. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    99,934
    45,291
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    you got that right. maybe wait until the 2017 primes are affordable. other than a leaky exhaust coolant heater loop, so far, so good
     
  11. Frontporch

    Frontporch Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2015
    278
    52
    0
    Location:
    Nj
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    I am guessing that jtdkn3dp9c3005574 does not have updated pistons and rings based on your info above.
     
  12. wjtracy

    wjtracy Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    11,196
    3,548
    1
    Location:
    Northern VA (NoVA)
    Vehicle:
    Other Hybrid
    Model:
    N/A
    The nice thing about PiP is you get oodles of cargo space like a Gen3, with sacrificing spare tire of course.
    Prime you will get more EV miles, for sure, but less cargo space. Gen3 was the last "bulbous" shape Prius.
    Due in part to Hurricane Sandy in NJ, I always thought I might go for 2013 maybe even 2015 PiP.
    Believe 2015MY PiP had some attempt at side-overlap crash test fixes. But in the end we wanted the 2018+ Toyota SafetySense2 package, so went for RAV4HV in 2020, and we like it.
     
    #12 wjtracy, Nov 15, 2022
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2022
  13. Frontporch

    Frontporch Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2015
    278
    52
    0
    Location:
    Nj
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    So looking at the scary part of a high mileage Gen3, there is piston rings, head gasket and brake booster that are the largest concern. Does anyone know the detail on the rings?
    Is it that they get deposits on them?
    There was a youtube video that put a product into the motor and ran in maintenance mode. seems to have good reviews on Amazon for fixing oil consumption. If its deposits that might work... if its excessive wear, there is no fix for that

    This is the stuff...
     
  14. Frontporch

    Frontporch Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2015
    278
    52
    0
    Location:
    Nj
    Vehicle:
    2007 Prius
    Model:
    N/A
    The owner has said that he only charged the battery a few times since owning the Prius. I asked him if it was possible to get it fully charged before I come see it and he said that he never had the cable ( that I assumed comes with the car).
    He said that he is not near a charging station but might be able to stop at one. Does any of that make sense? Can you charge a PIP at a commercial charging station?
     
  15. Hokie-Dave

    Hokie-Dave Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2005
    161
    41
    0
    Location:
    Manassas, VA
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    Can you charge a PIP at a commercial charging station?""

    Yes, you can charge a PIP at a commercial charging station. I charge mine at the office every day. It should take about an hour and a half.
     
  16. bisco

    bisco cookie crumbler

    Joined:
    May 11, 2005
    99,934
    45,291
    0
    Location:
    boston
    Vehicle:
    2012 Prius Plug-in
    Model:
    Plug-in Base
    if they are the original owner, yes, they got a cable with the car.

    yes, ir can be charged at a standard 240v charging station, not at some of the tesla, or dc stations.
     
Loading...